Why was/is Russia so bitter?

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO:

to me Jesus was a rather good guy (what he preached - I mean himself- is not that bad)

I figure since you are not a religious fanatic you are open to the concept of science and actual history.

And so I'll let you know that outside of the Bible there is no historical evidence that Jesus the man ever existed. For a man to have done so much (even with miracles not been accounted) you would think there would be much more history outside of the bible, there is none.

His name and what he did is also nothing knew as the SAME story was told 1000 years prior to year 0 in Egyptian, Greek, Buddhists and Persian religions.

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

Yes I was considering he lived but that's open to debate.

How many hot philosophical debates did the SC2 testers get ?

[targul]

Actually most scientist believe Jesus did exist and have things to attest to that. Now as to the reserrection and that is another matter entirely. A body disappearing 3 days after it was buried of someone that was going to be a martyr is another matter. Many times bodies have been moved to protect the sanctity of the resting place or prevent people from distrubing it. Cases go back to at least the Egypt times.

I have little doubt Jesus existed. I am also willing to accept he was a good man of what I consider Buddhist qualities. But no man is God and no Buddha is God. They are teachers. We all need these teachers so the debates of right and wrong can be resolved logically.

My God doesnt really get involved with the creatures he made ie man, animals and plants. He gave us live and hasnt bothered with us since.

We go to "Heaven" when we have learned to live in peace with the world. I will need a few more tries before I reach that level of understanding but once you do you naturally glide into the life eternal where you no longer need to learn what is right.

I dont need pray to Jesus to ask his father if I am okay. His "father" God will simply allow me to walk into the light when I am ready. We then meet all our ancestors who have helped us to this place and live happily ever after.

[jon_j_rambo]

The Doll sounds like a little beeotch. He makes us but doesn't bother to stick around? Not much of a dad. Dad's are to stay with their kids according to my God.

The Doll sits on the shelf & doesn't bother to give us the truth?

The Doll has teachers, but offer to absolutes? Why bother to teach?

The Doll says,"find the next level knowledge", but since you aren't allowed to ever know the truth, you are stuck always trying to get to the next level, but there's always a level higher? Rather dumb.

The Doll knows nothing about the future, no prophesy? Makes for a rather boring Camp meeting.

The Doll died & can't rise from the dead? Not much of a Doll.

[Blashy]

Targul do some research because archeologist's and historical scholars on a HUGE majority do not believe he existed because of lack of evidence and also tons of evidence that the story in the bible is the same as previous religions.

You mention you think of him more as a Buddha, well part of his story in the bible comes directly from how one man became Buddha which was told 1000s of years before the bible ever started to be written. And then they tried to sell it as a historical occurrence.

The few scholars that do claim a "possible" existence are based on speculative evidence and even they admit to this.

[jon_j_rambo]

@Blashy --- Dude, you're nuts. Jesus didn't even exist? What next, George Washington wasn't the first President of the United States. Bill Gates is a cloned image of my butt?

Ah, check "The Calender", what year is it? When did that calender start?

Sad boy, sad,

-Legend

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

Jon, your arguments aren't worth sh*t. It's not because many people believe he existed that he existed.

Ask children if Santa exists !

[targul]

As to your doll theory when you know nothing you should probably keep mouth closed and listen.

Buddha's are not dolls they are teachers. You could use a few lessons. But you dont seem to listen so it is doubtful you can learn. Advancement required education and enlightenment.

BTW, the Chinese calander is much older then your AD calander and still exists. It is based in lunar solar and started between 770-221 BC. The Georgian calander was proclaimed by Pope Gregory XII in the mid 1500's if memory is correct. It was decreed it would start upon the date of Jesus Birth for year. So it became your calander basically around 1575 years after Jesus "Anno Domini". Also note the Pope determined it. The catholic religion determined much of your history and the Bible. They put in what they liked and worked for them and left out what didnt.

[SeaMonkey]

So I take it that PDF and others follow the assumption that if there is not physical evidence, something you can hold in your hand, then that entity doesn't exist?

Right?

Does Santa exist? Depends on your definition of "Santa", doesn't it?

Your preconceived notion from your conditioned thought processes leads to your conclusion?

Interesting that you are so knowledgeable that you can emphatically state that something exists or not.

What about "the wind" or the number "1", are they real? Perhaps they are just labels for something else?

What about your "feelings", they don't exist for me.

Take off the blinders.

[Bromley]

It's a matter of faith. I choose to not have faith in the teaching of my childhood as, now I know better, I can see that if I was born in another part of the world my ancestors would have been just a sure of the supremacy of [insert god/belief system here].

That's a simple version, but imagine what someone who's a fundamenalist in a nice, western country would be like if he was born elsewhere.

:Blinders off: .

[jon_j_rambo]

@Bromley --- Ah, you slow or something? The West has no monopoly on the Truth of the Lord Jesus Christ. The USA is the new kids on the block. First saved were in the Middle East, then the good news went everywhere.

Problem isn't your geography, problem is your heart of pride.

[Bromley]

Nice to see you admit the US's newbie status .

On the religion front, the Middle East has moved on (haven't you heard?) and the latest in the line of prophets thinks you guys are behind the times. Are they saved?

Like I said, your sect is very limited, both in geographical and number terms. That's not to say you're not powerful - you've got your guy into office in the last superpower.

Heart of pride? You're almost alone in the world and yet you're the one saved. Now that's PRIDE .

EDITED spelling

[ August 12, 2007, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Bromley ]

[jon_j_rambo]

Yeah, Noah & 7 others were the only ones who survived. Lott barely survived Sodom. I'd guess about 10% of the world's population is saved. Purely a guess.

Next major event, RAPTURE!

-Legend

[SeaMonkey]

I'd say 5% with the intelligence level to make it through.

[Ottosmops]

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:

So I take it that PDF and others follow the assumption that if there is not physical evidence, something you can hold in your hand, then that entity doesn't exist?

Right?

Does Santa exist? Depends on your definition of "Santa", doesn't it?

Your preconceived notion from your conditioned thought processes leads to your conclusion?

Interesting that you are so knowledgeable that you can emphatically state that something exists or not.

What about "the wind" or the number "1", are they real? Perhaps they are just labels for something else?

What about your "feelings", they don't exist for me.

Take off the blinders.

1.) Does the wind exist?

I have no doubts that it exists. I can feel it right now.

2.) Does the number 1 exist?

What do you mean with 'exist'?

Obviously, the word 'exist' is used with different meanings.

Numbers don't exist physically in the same sense as the wind exists. They are a useful invention of the human mind to structure reality. So they 'exist' only in our mind.

3.) Does God exist?

What meaning of 'exist' do you use in this question?

What do you mean with the word 'God'?

4.) Generally, if someone claims that something 'exists', it is his obligation to prove that his claim is true.

Those, who doubt his claim, shouldn't assert that this something doesn't exist, but they should ask for a surefire proof.

Therefore, it is the duty of the 'theist' to make clear what he means, before the 'atheist' can join the debate.

5.) There are people like Rambo, (and I know some of them personally), who talk about 'God' as if they have met Him face-to-face, they seem to know so much about Him, His intentions and doings.

But when I ask them to let me participate in their knowledge, they can only quote old books and old myths.

For lack of personal experience, these people suggest one should simply believe. But I haven't heard a convincing reason, why it is better to believe the 'theists' than to believe the 'atheists'.

6.) Therefore, I have decided to stay an ignorant and wait, until the debate is decided.

[Guest Mike]

Jesus is mentioned in at least one Roman historical text - Tacitus IIRC, where they're all busy blaming Christians for hte fire that burned Rome about 68AD - the one where Neros supposedly "fiddled"

[xwormwood]

Originally posted by Blashy:

Targul do some research because archeologist's and historical scholars on a HUGE majority do not believe he existed because of lack of evidence and also tons of evidence that the story in the bible is the same as previous religions.

all i've learned is

a) jesus did live

if you question a), than you REALLY have to question even more the excistence of thousand of other ancient personalities (alexander, platon & co.)

c) archeologist's and historical scholars on a HUGE majority agree with a) and

man, waste some time for some honest research. Look, even at sloppy wikipedia there is enough news for you to learn, and what you find there ist not even the top of the iceberg.

[jon_j_rambo]

@Ottoslops --- Well, I have met God, thru his son the Lord Jesus Christ. I know about the ways of God thru his Holy Spirit & written words. I learn from his people. I know the Lord by his actions, the Lord Jesus Christ. When I got saved, that first meeting was sort of a blind date. I do know the Lord. How could I be one of his own, if I don't know him?

How else do you learn about someone?

The Lord ain't the wind.

The Lord ain't the number 1.

The Lord ain't some building.

The Lord ain't some pope.

The Lord is the Creator.

The Lord is the Substainer.

The Lord is the Holy One.

The Lord is Spirit.

Unless you get born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God. --- John 3:3

-Legend

[ August 12, 2007, 05:17 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

[SeaMonkey]

Good Otto, mostly there, but we have other definitions that still can be misconstrued as ambiguous.

"Proof" is the biggie in my mind for it is subject to interpretation, sort of like evidence and the circumstantial type.

Again subjective, how about some objectivity?

GDM on line 6 but there is a limitation.

[jon_j_rambo]

@SeaMonkey --- Yes, changing the subject to a courtroom trial for a criminal is intersting. What is "reasonable doubt"? Scott Peterson was convicted w/o any hard evidence. Dude just "acted guilty"...he looked it.

[SeaMonkey]

Got to hand it to you Rambo...you sure have a penchant for keeping things going.

[jon_j_rambo]

Nah, I just have DirecTV. I watched the Biography Channel couple days ago after letting the dog out in the middle of the night. Was a special on Scott Peterson. No hard evidence...dude was a freak, guilty as sin. There's "always doubt", but is that "doubt reasonable"?

Enjoy life in prison Scotty, you murderer.

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

I never stated that Jesus or God didn't exist, just said that

- Jesus existence could be an historical debate

- As for God noone can prove he exists nor that he doesn't, each one answers by faith and not science.

Trying to compare that to physical phenomenons like wind or numbers - that can be proved- is just a way of swamping the debate.

Jon_j_rambo, did you take pictures of you with Jesus when you last met ?

[jon_j_rambo]

@PASCAL De Fool --- Yeah, I did. It's the King James Bible Great snapshot. Matter of fact, church starts in 70 minutes, wanna join? I've got NetMeeting on my computer.

Get saved Frenchie,

-Legend

[SeaMonkey]

PDF, don't confuse evidence with concept.

Perhaps your boat could use a swamping.

An experience of basic survival with near death could be insightful. :eek:

By the way Rambo, do you also reside at Holliday Inn Express?