AAR: TaoJah vs. Jollyguy

[Jollyguy]

Okay, TaoJah (Axis) and I (Allies) have had a pbem game going for a couple weeks now. As far as I can remember the early game was fairly normal, although I believe this is the game where he tried to contest my Norwegian expeditionary force and got a black eye. I don’t think we’ve had any outsized diplo luck. We are approaching the end of 1941 and US readiness is in the mid 80s, because Spain and Iraq and Syria and Vichy are all still neutral. TaoJah has taken the front three Russian cities which I left abandoned, and also just finished off Leningrad, and other than that the only other skirmishing we’ve done in Russia in a fight over one central city that I did contest, and me taking out an army at the cost of a corp.

Out west TaoJah tried to sneak up on the Norwegian mines but was detected, not by the RN, but by a careless U-boat captain that forgot to put his sub on “silent,” resulting in the dispatch of numerous RN units. A panicked corp disembarked into the middle Norwegian city, forcing me to garrison the ore mine area. At about the same time he retook Brest, where blood was shed in expected quantities by each side.

Later, and the turn after Algeria was taken by the Axis, I planted a corp garrison that was never asked to leave Casablanca, so once the risk of Sea Lion passed the Brits reinforced the city with an army, their tank, corps, an HQ, and air units. Post Barbarossa my air hit a German HQ he had on the Mediterranean coast, and then my navy weighed anchor from around Gibralter and joined in for some bombarding, and my expeditionary force crossed the mountains and advanced ½ way to Algeria. The next turn, and against the advice of his Admirals, Il Duce’s navy sortied from the comfort of their home ports to challenge the RN, but bumped into a layer of screening ships lying in wait. In the ensuing engagement the Italian Navy lost two bbs and a sub, at the cost of miscellaneous damage to several RN ships. He moved his 8 strength HQ inland one hex, and the next turn my fighters and bomber, joined by two carriers, one at LR 1, combined for five successive, uncontested hits on the HQ, which must have been yelling, “Where is fat Goring’s air force!” The answer is that was all busy pummeling the peaceful denizens of aforementioned Leningrad.

His African HQ survived though, my guess at 1 or 2, and was then able to anchor a German counterthrust, as his land units, consisting of two corps and an army, left their trenches and charged across the desert to surprise my land units, who were peacefully brewing tea as the English are inclined to do under almost all circumstances. Then, as if interrupting tea wasn’t enough, at least two Luftwaffe units operated in from the Russian Front. The English dropped their cups of tea and retreated back towards Casablanca.

On the research front my Allied scientists have been average, with Barbarossa kicking off and seeing the Russians at AT 3, but only IW 1. The IW1 situation was so bad it forced Stalin to commit five chits in that technology toward the end of 1940, where they sat collecting dust for the better part of a year. Even normal threats like sending those IW scientists to Siberia or instituting a new Pogrom didn’t work! And then, the turn after Barbarossa kicked off, my Russian scientists received inspiration, (I personally believe it was from unfettered access to vodka), as they got IW 2. That was quickly followed by IW 3 a few turns later, at which point the remaining 3 chits were cashed in and directed to other worthy causes. (How the Yanks have fared technologically is a State secret.)

So, it’s late 1941, and that’s where we sit. I believe Pearl Harbor was just attacked so the Yanks will be in the war soon; the Dnieper line is intact and I hold that lower Black Sea city; the Siberians arrived somewhat early; Urals industry is humming away; and I still hold Norway.

Bob

[ January 09, 2007, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: Jollyguy ]

[jon_j_rambo]

So the game sounds even? Germany had weak converts (no Spain), but Russia has weak IW, thus the game is up in the air. I'll be watching this one...because I'm playing Taojah right now Also, going to beef up on my Jollytime notes, give him my A-game next time

-Legend

[TaoJah]

Please remove the "best AI player" from the title, I never claimed that tilte ! I just post alot, that's all.

No, this wasn't the game were Norway was contested. I just took one city back with a landing, I wanted to make sure the English didn't think I'm a softy !

Leningrad fell, that's always a goal of mine. I don't know if it's worth it HvH, but it's a good city to land some units and attack the Russians in the back later on, when I am retreating.

You haven't sent your latest move back, so I can't see how your retreat in Africa is going, but I'm gonne have some fun there, because clearly there is not alot of fun to be had in Russia :-(

[jon_j_rambo]

Taojah & I are mixing it up early in our game! He has the Axis, and just sent 3+ Italian ships to Egypt along with landing an Army. A little action there, activating the Egyptian backup forces. Italian Fighter in Tobruk.

Meanwhile, UK-Bomber taking popshots on Tobruk's port.

Also, we had RN-Carrier running into Italian cruiser North of Algeria!

Spanish MEGA-hit Diplo of 33% will force Gerry into a tough spot!

Not trying to steal any thunder of this AAR, just glad Taojah has joined the HvH mode! Enjoy the action.

[Minty]

Taojah / Jolly guy. What happened in Eygpt? My guess is that if Taojah took it then he's got a fighting chance. Leningrad is always a great city to take, such a pain to take and always a thorn in the side versus Human or computer. Think smart money is probably on jollyguy though. Sounds like there is a Lot of Russia left for Taojah to eat up but if he's got big fast tanks...

Taojah - quickly surpise him with a late winter 41 Sealion before the Yanks arrive in London to impregnate British women. Sounds like the Brits are busy faffing in the Med. I guarantee he won't be expecting it!

[TaoJah]

With Jolly, I took Egypt (with a maximum of plane experience won, I may add). But there is alot of Russia left, so I don't really have a change I think. And I don't have big fast tanks, not even big slow tanks or fast small tanks, I only got slow smalle tanks, due to some VERY lazy researchers.

And I decided against a Sealion : it's true that he has his three UK planes in Africa, but it's easy to defend against a Sealion with just the Royal Marine. I am just calculating where his HQ is exactly so I can see if there is a chance that I can take out a plane or two before he has enough supply to operate them. It seems to me that he moved his HQ and planes a bit far east, but I still got to do the exact numbers.

[hellraiser]

I, Robot joined the h2h arena? Welcome dude

Looking forward to read some nice AARs.

And yes, Leningrad is a VERY strategic objective.

[Minty]

What happened in this Game then?

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Minty:

What happened in this Game then?

Not much, the game goes very, very slow with only 10 turns played since last week monday (is it alway sthis slooooooow ?).

By now, he took Iran and Iraq with Russia, Spain and Sweden are still neutral, I took Vichy, Moscow and the Kharkov-line. Africa is still mine, but he is getting ready to push again through Casablanca.

I didn't get one single tech advance in the last 10 turns, so I still got slow little tanks.

[BioWizard]

The game is not slow at all if you play HvsH online. I know I am repeating myself but you should give ICQ a try! I'm online for the next 4-5 hours...

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by BioWizard:

The game is not slow at all if you play HvsH online. I know I am repeating myself but you should give ICQ a try! I'm online for the next 4-5 hours...

Perhaps I should do this whole ICQ thing, even though I don't like the idea of it. But these mails games are so slow, lol.

[Jollyguy]

I agree with Biowizard, HtoH moves much faster if you have time for tcp. Actually, due my schedule, my favorite mode of play is to mix tcp with pbem.

In my situation the ideal situation is to begin the game tcp on a Friday or Saturday night and take it up to Barbarossa, give or take, which takes maybe a couple hoursa and which is about all I can fit in, and also btw when my third or fourth beer starts to impair my judgement. Then we switch to pbem to keep up momentum during the work week. Then, on the following Friday or Saturday we squeeze in another tcp session, and the direction of the game starts to unfold. You can tell a lot of times by that second session if the game will go all 15 rounds, or one side has a distinct advantage and maybe better to end things early. So in many instances the outcome of the game is clear within a week, maybe two. Not bad.

Bob

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Jollyguy:

and also btw when my third or fourth beer starts to impair my judgement

Hehe, perhaps you should play the next 5-6 moves after those beers, then I might still have a chance in this game

[Jollyguy]

Okay, this ended up as an Allied win against TaoJah's Axis.

He played the Axis well, with his only strategic mistake being to spread the Axis out too much. He stalled me in North Africa, pushing back my initial advance toward Algeria, but at the expense of operating in several air (and then back), and transporting over a couple armies and an HQ. While that was going on the Russians were able to build up. He eventually took Leningrad and punched through my Dnieper line, which I abandoned, retreating back to a second set of fortifications. By now the Bear was building up significantly, one turn I placed ten or twelve Russian units.

For the second battle of Algeria, I disabled the Algerian port and Algeria itself. Then, with the Italian Navy having lost a number os ships I took control of the western Med, and also took a chance and amphib'ed my Malta corp and operated over my RAF bomber. In conjunction the US had landed in Casablanca and then amphib'ed, and they're task force was in the western med. The next turn my bomber spotted an empty Tunisia, which the British took, and my Americans landed east of Algeria while the Brits moved inland. The Americans bumped into the German HQ and took it out.

At the same time the Russians finished up with Iran and Iraq, and started moving toward Vichy, where they bumped into a paratroop next to a German corp. At the same time I started to move portions of my navy back to England, who, with an Engineer, would help secure the Home Islands, as with new players you never know if they'll launch an delayed Sea Lion.

But with the landings in North Africa, and the Bear ready to move to the offensive, the Allies offered to end the game, which was accepted.

TaoJah's main strategic error was spreading out in too many places, and not keeping the Russians on their heels. Other than that it was a good game, and IMO TaoJah will turn into a very competant H to H opponent.

Bob

[n0kn0k]

Interesting game

[TaoJah]

Yes, I didn't dare to abandon North Africa. What good is advancing in Russia when he can land a zillion units from Africa right in my backyard ?

And in defending Africa I made the mistake of leaving Algiers undefended so he could land in the back.

But IMHO the Axis REALLY need more corps to garrison everything. I had EVERY land unit on the board, all corps, all armies, all HQ and all tanks. But nearly all corps were needed to garrison France, Spain, Denmark, Africa and Russia so I just didn't have enough punch in Russia.

The Axis should REALLY be able to build more corps when he takes certain countries ! Or work with a point based system where you can take one less tank but -say- three more corps.

Against the AI no change is needed, because you don't need to garrison everything, but HvH you got to keep everything garrisoned and you simply don't get enough units to do that.

[Jollyguy]

I don't agree that the Axis needs more garrison units, as one of the balancing aspects of the game is that the Allies have to be able to land in force somewhere, which is quite historical. If the Axis could garrison everywhere we'd have the same problem as in SC1, where the Axis could just build walls of corps to try to prevent a landing, and the Allies needed to build scads of air units just to get ashore. The Axis can surrender a lot of real estate on their flanks before things become too critical. The Allies advancing from North Africa does not in of itself signal the imminent demise of the Axis. If the Axis can bide for time with the Western allies while they're trying to deliver a knockout blow to the Russians, then an Allied African incursion need not signal the end of the game.

So, I believe I'm in the camp that believes the game is fairly well balanced. The trick in SC2 is trying to master the many moving parts of the game and tailoring your strategy to the nuances of each opponents moves, which I'm still a long way from doing.

Bob

[TaoJah]

I don't want to build walls of corps, but as it is now, you can not even defend all cities against a landing. And that is wrong, IMHO, you should be able to garrison the cities.

[Terif]

You already can easily occupy every coastal city with your existing axis forces:

- Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria provide 7 units

- Finland is another 5 units

- Italy has alone 5 corps + 5 armies, i.e. at least 10 units for garrison duty

- Germany has 20 corps besides its more heavy stuff

So you have more than 40 weak units for garrison duty if necessary, but you only have to use a maximum of 15 units in the west if you have the Med and want to garrison everything - including 2 additional units for the Denmark straits. Without the med you need to garrison Italy, but don´t have to defend the african cities...in the end that leaves you plenty of units - including all the heavy stuff - for Russia or other battlefields .

[TaoJah]

Let's break the numbers down and see where to put them...

The 7 units of eastern Europe go to partisan duty in Yougoslavia (2), the Russian marshes (2) and their own capitals (3). The airplane you can actually use to fight, yes.

The 5 finish troops go to Leningrad (1) the marshes there (2) and its own capital (1). That leaves one free unit for -say- the Danish street.

Say we abandond Africa entirely. Then the Italian ones go to Italy (4), Sicily (1), Tirana (1), Greece (1) and Spain (3).

So, for the Germans, you got...

Portugal (1)

Gibraltar (1)

France (3 if you leave all the fortifications open which is kinda silly, but soit)

Denmark (1)

North-west Germany (3, including the sea-street)

Munich or Berlin (1)

The rest go to Russia.

Now, you need 7 to cover the cities until Kharkov. That leaves you exact 3 (three) German corpses ready to fight east of Kharkov/Moscow. And we all know that the battle of Russia only begins there. Three...

Bottom line: you got to keep certain cities in the east or west undefended if you want to advance further in Russia.

Solution ? You should get extra garrison units when you take France, Spain or Egypt. Or you should be able to break down armies into corpses. Or no partisans in marshes/mountains (you lose *6* crops to that).

[Epaulard]

If you invade Egypt, Gibraltar should be a priority right after. Therefore, Spain must be Axis, by diplo or force

With both (Egypt and Gibraltar), you can "lock" Med and spare a loooooooooot of garrisons.

In fact, it's kinda difficult for Axis if they can't or don't want fully control Med. Africa should be evacuated sooner or later if it become too costly.

Keep in mind the most important thing:

Beat the bear, win the war!

[Terif]

So let´s go into details...:

Eastern Europe (8 units):

- you only need 1 unit for Yugoslavia (west of the capital), one partisan will appear in the mountains but he can do no harm, just destroy him when he moves out and you have silence there forever .

- For Leningrad area you only need 2 units

- for the Pripjet swamps at Kiev/Minsk you also only need 2 units if you don´t touch the southern part of it (or destroy the partisans that appear)

- 1 unit for Odessa

- 1 unit for Romania (capital) to prevent amphib landings

- 1 unit for Finland (capital)

With Spain conquered you only need for the west 12 units:

- Gibraltar, Portugal, Bilbao 3 units

- Bordeaux, Brest, Brussel 3 units

- Hamburg, Denmark straits, Kopenhagen 4 units

- Berlin 1 unit

- Rome 1 unit

These are the fix garrison units you need, the rest is flexible and depends on the situation:

You can protect Cassablanca/Tangier with 1-2 units or with your fleet and an Axis task force consisting of a HQ and half a dozen (or up to a dozen) ground troops should be ready to fight against western Allies whereever they come from, be it in France, northern Germany, Spain or Africa.

To garrison Greece or Albania is unnecessary, same for northern Italy or the other Mediterranean cities if you have the entrance points into the Med under your control. Even if Allies are going on an african campaign, your front troops should take care no one comes past them and use your italian fleet to protect your cities in the rear against naval raiders (amphibs). You simply can´t secure all landing places, so better don´t waste a lot of forces trying to – but instead have an intervention squad ready inland so you can move them to any actual landing site and crush the invaders before they can establish a real beachhead.

This means including western Russia you only need 20 fix garrison units but already have a minimum of 22 minor units for garrison duty - and a few of the garrisons, especially in France are better german corps anyway since they should be able to put up a fight if necessary. So in the end Axis have more than enough units left for combat purposes. Even if you are using besides the 20 garrison troops a dozen german units as fast intervention squad, Germany still has up to 30 ground units (corps, armies, tanks) left for combat purposes in Russia or anywhere else .

[ January 23, 2007, 03:20 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

[Bromley]

Nice tips on allowing some partisans to form. They've always been an anathema to me, but I like the Yugo idea.

Obviously to each their own, but why Hamburg rather than Essen?

Also, if you have a damaged ship spare to watch Malta, is there any reason to garrison Rome? Perhaps in case of a very sneaky amphib hidden in the Med? Likewise do you advise keeping the Finnish unit in case of Soviet para landings.

[Terif]

Keeping Hamburg is necessary if you want to protect your fleet in the Baltic. Essen is not really necessary to garrison (but you can if you have placed your intervention squad in France/northern Germany): if an enemy lands in Essen, just kill him. He can´t do much harm, has nowhere to go and can only die there...

Rome is better to always keep garrisoned, same as Berlin - you never know if the enemy has hidden an amphib somewhere or some Long-Range Paratroopers...so better spare one unit than to loose the war because of not protecting your most important capitals. For Rome an alternative is to screen the whole med with your italian navy for a left amphib, but usually they have better things to do...but for Malta you should in deed use a damaged/weak ship to surveille it, so the corps there can´t go on a rampage tour...

Finland is the same as the other capitals (including the romanian one) - if you loose the capital of one of your minor or major nations, then this nation will surrender...and Finland is in range of allied Paras from Norway, so if you don´t garrison it, you can be sure sooner or later a Para will land in your capital and force a finish surrender - UK bomber tests if Helsinki is empty and then the Para jumps... .

[n0kn0k]

"you only need 1 unit for Yugoslavia (west of the capital), one partisan will appear in the mountains but he can do no harm, just destroy him when he moves out and you have silence there forever"

Hmm so if you destroy a partisan it doesn't appear again? didn't know that.