The Sequence of Battle

[SeaMonkey]

Out at the lab again, awaiting analytical data, so let's shoot from hip(gives the doves a better chance)and see where this goes.

We know static(nonmoving)units get a bonus(25% readiness) for prep. b/4 combat...I like that.

Air units don't contribute significantly to strength losses as before but are more potent as a morale, readiness detriment...I like that.

So Dave, you've had experience with the SC2 battle sequence. Is it the same as SC1, essentially, or is there some different twists and turns?

One thing I'm curious about, is what happens to SC combat units in subsequent attacks after they have retreated? Since they may suffer morale and readiness disruption to certain degrees, would air attacks be more lethal in strength losses as the retreating unit(s) are more exposed.

And how about the effectiveness of rampaging mechanized units on routing units, do the combat algorithms provide for more substantial damage?

Is it unit type specific,ie. foot infantry suffering more than armored units?

Well that ought to get the discussion going, well DD, what's the verdict?

[Sombra]

Well, it seems that defense will be difficult. Units attack move out, new units move in....up to 16 ground attacks are possible. (With this attack move modus I think you would have solved the the problem of the static battlelines in SC1 without giving up the hexes.)

We will see how this works in the final product. At least it looks very promising.

[Desert Dave]

So Dave, you've had experience with the SC2 battle sequence. Is it the same as SC1, essentially, or is there some different twists and turns?

Seafarer,

Like the difference between

A '57 Ford Fairlane convertible

(... with fold away top - this is a "classic"

just as SC the Original is :cool: )

And a 1966 Shelby Mustang,

X-tremely limited edition.

Best if we let you SEE what happens

With screenshots.

It would take me hours to explain

What can very easily be illustrated

In a series of shots.

Besides, Hubert is yet refining

A few things here and there,

So... in another 4 or 5 weeks (... best guess,

might be sooner, or, later)

You'll see how the new! movement schematic

Works on a larger map,

And with tiles instead of hexes.

Well, it seems that defense will be difficult. Units attack move out, new units move in....up to 16 ground attacks are possible. (With this attack move modus I think you would have solved the the problem of the static battlelines in SC1 without giving up the hexes.)

We will see how this works in the final product. At least it looks very promising.

Sure, Sombra, it is POSSIBLE

to initiate 16 attacks, but realistically,

Given the build restrictions,

And the need to upgrade/reinforce

When you are NOT in contact w/enemy forces,

And requirements on each front - to fend off

Partisans and potential invasions,

And given the strength and possible deployment

Of units on any particular "front"

(... I use this term loosely, because

that front - esp in Russia, is VERY flexible)

It is HIGHLY unikely you could maneuver

Quite intricately, enough

To actually achieve 16 attacks.

More like, oh, 4 or 5 or 6.

Well, as I mentioned above, you'll soon see.

[SeaMonkey]

Well then,

The comparison of a Sunday drive on the Bayfront to a jolting acceleration down the quarter mile track, hitting the traps well above 100 mph.

I imagine SC2 is sleek and tweaked!

[pzgndr]

Is it the same as SC1, essentially, or is there some different twists and turns? One thing I'm curious about, is what happens to SC combat units in subsequent attacks after they have retreated?

"Essentially," the sequence is about the same. I've managed to go through Poland, Denmark, Norway, Benelux and France with my canned strategies with similar results. You wouldn't expect things to be too different, right? But there are slightly different effects. The new morale effects make air strikes somewhat more useful at the start of an attack sequence rather than at the end for a kill shot. The new attack-move feature presents a few additional options.

Frankly, it's hard to describe many significant differences in the early campaign since we haven't seen the full effects of research, diplomacy, elite reinforcements and some others. However, the new production delays and weather effects certainly have an effect during the winter months of 39-40. Germany is challenged to try anything in the west until they get their new unit arrivals and clear weather returns. That's a refreshing change, since it imposes some realistic limitations.

[Blashy]

Diplomacy, now that is a baby I intend to have some fun mastering.

That is the ultimate strategy that can change how this war turns out.

Imagine negotiating Spain and Sweden to join the Axis.

Or investing heavily in having Turkey go again for a Central Powers revisited.

[Edwin P.]

Agreed, it will be interesting to see how diplomacy plays out in SC2. Can it/should it be ignored? Is it a viable option for both alliances (Axis and Allied)?

[pzgndr]

Diplomacy should be interesting. It's set up to allow a chance for diplomatic effect per chit invested, and the effect itself would be random over a min/max range. My guess is that a combination of investment and luck will be needed to see any significant diplomatic changes. And how much investment might one want to make in something inherently risky?? Probably only a key target or two, and then you have to worry about your opponent possibly shooting for the same target. Should be interesting indeed.

[Desert Dave]

Agreed, it will be interesting to see how diplomacy plays out in SC2. Can it/should it be ignored?

No way Edwin P, can it be ignored,

NOT in this political game.

To add to what Bill has said, and to *bump*

That crude Mark Twain manque,

I'll mention this... no longer

Can you safely say - hey!

Once USA is IN the game, THEN

I can run rampage all over the place!

Because, EACH aggression WILL result

In reactions by OTHER countries, usually

Those nearby.

For one example... IF Russia decides,

While they are awaiting GErman onslaught,

To attack Finland, or Iran,

For the resources AND the badly desired

Experience for the pale-red units, well,

In the first instance, Sweden

Will probably raise a ruckus, and

In the other, should USSR send beserkers

Down through the mountains to take Tehran?

Well, Turkey would most probably squawk.

**[NOTE: This is a case where USA would

NOT be bothered much... IF Britain was able

To muster enough forces to take Iran

BEFORE Russia - remember, USSR

And UK/USA are potentially

"Allied" but are "uncooperative," well

SOMEBODY probably should open

The "Persian Lend-Lease" route, true?

Especially if the GErman Player builds

Lots of U-boots and can effectively

Shut off the "Arctic convoys"]

And, those "gamey" invasions, say,

Like Allies taking Benelux early? so

To put a stick in the spokes of the Pz 3's?

Ah, but Sweden & Switzerland (... those

"peacenik" nations, LOL!) will likely

Move toward Axis collaboration.

How much?

That's a random number, but there IS

A small chance that it could

Be a significant advance.

(... let's say, oh, GErman Player has

Secretly been courting Switzerland, and

Then there is aggravation caused by

Allied aggression, well, maybe you would

See powerful Swiss Guard armies

Marching - Kiev to Rostov?)

Then, of course, being alert

(... and keeping an eye on the Diplo Map)

You would probably have to spend

Scarce MPP's in order to - try to un-do

That particular - rash act of State.

This is true all over the map.

In almost every single instance.

Unlike how it used to be, as when

You were a youth - playing Army manuevers

Right on through the neighbor's

Prize winning! tulips :eek:

Well, you just can't get away with much

Of anything, these days.

[ September 18, 2005, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[Edwin P.]

Cool and most realistic consequences to acts of aggression.

Diplo Map? What does it tell/show you?

Persian Lend Lease Route? Does this appear after Iraq is liberated by the Allies?

[SeaMonkey]

A truly awesome feature in the making! Thanks for the info DD.

So, is there a possibility of revenue sharing, ie enhanced MPPs, for a pro-leaning neutral to contribute to the Major cause?

Could it be variable depending on the degree of diplomacy/aggressive actions applied by either side?

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by SeaMonkey:

So, is there a possibility of revenue sharing, ie enhanced MPPs, for a pro-leaning neutral to contribute to the Major cause?

Could it be variable depending on the degree of diplomacy/aggressive actions applied by either side?

Home is ol' SM,

Home from the Sea, and - if you will,

An SC-information Hunter!

Home hale from the dale & hill.

This most-excellent idea has been very much discussed, but I just don't think it's going to make it this go-round... though,

Hubert has been springing some fine SURPRISES of late, so, who can absolutely say? But, probably not, for now.

As originally posted by Edwin P:

Persian Lend Lease Route? Does this appear after Iraq is liberated by the Allies?

Let me clarify a little.

A while back I had said that sovereign nation of Iran would allow the player to "re-enact" a kind of Persian Lend-Lease route by allowing Russia, in a sense, a clear shot at Iran, provided they can live with the diplomatic penalties.

The resulting MPP gain would duplicate the actual amount sent by the Western Allies, give or take.

Thus far, there is NOT any specific Lend-Lease application... as there is with USA sending MPP's to Britain and, Britain to Russia (... really, just forwarding USA dollars, with some "juice" for the station agent, of course! LOL!).

So. What I am saying is this: Hubert hasn't made a FINAL decision on, oh... 3 or 4 or 5 different ways that this LL might be handled.

HOWEVER the default game ends up, even if you as Russian Player must DoW Iran and somehow muster enough berserkers to take the capital of Tehran,

**You CAN use your imagination and cobble together some kind of "script" (... from several that would probably work in this instance) and create the PRECISE kind of "Persian Lend-Lease Land Route" that you might want.

Same as with those who have asked for a supply convoy from Italy <-> Libya.

The thing is... there are SO many ways to play.

And, there are so-o-o many editor options

To ... up and opt to. :cool:

[SeaMonkey]

Thanks DD,

Appreciate the greetings, but home is about to be evacuated. Mandatory, no choice now, Rita is a monster. I'm going to run for my life. I'm heading to the "hill and dale" and any mountains I can find to put in between Rita and my loved ones.

So long fellow SC brethrens.......I shall return.

[Desert Dave]

Appreciate the greetings, but home is about to be evacuated. Mandatory, no choice now, Rita is a monster. I'm going to run for my life. I'm heading to the "hill and dale" and any mountains I can find to put in between Rita and my loved ones.

Good luck with that, SM, get you

And the family, and friends,

Safe and sound.

And, anyone else out there in same situation,

Likewise.