The Longest Day....Not!

[Blashy]

It would not affect balance, on the contrary.

You can still surprise the enemy with a sub option, if he has not research ASW he will be stuck in port until he gets good ASW while you raid his convoy lanes.

And you can catch some ships out of port if he is not prepared.

And exploit unbalances things, fixing it brings back the balance.

[Liam]

Very Strong sub tech when the RN has been overly exposed in combat will matter. Also with the Home Isles still under threat. A combination of either a raiding-Sea Lion Strategy or a Mere Threat carries dire consequences if ignored. Generally by this point if not anticipated ASW will not matter. Later perhaps

Very foul weather raiding has a good advantage, because the UK Carriers are useless and picking and choosing when to use your U-Boats. Even higher level U-boats are very vulnerable if they're engaged by a large fleet! I doubt that a reinforced RN and combined US Fleet will be done in...not without using Axis Surface Ships as well

in this I suppose you have a true Challenge for Naval Dominance. Though historically did U-boats challenge the RN? I highly doubt that challenged a tugboat that was adaquetly armed! They did however starve the home Isles

Originally posted by Blashy:

It would not affect balance, on the contrary.

You can still surprise the enemy with a sub option, if he has not research ASW he will be stuck in port until he gets good ASW while you raid his convoy lanes.

And you can catch some ships out of port if he is not prepared.

And exploit unbalances things, fixing it brings back the balance.

[Desert Dave]

Liam:

Though historically did U-boats challenge the RN? I highly doubt that challenged a tugboat that was adaquetly armed! They did however starve the home Isles

Battleships:

1) BARHAM (31,100t, 1915), sunk by U-boat torpedoes, off Sollum, Egypt, November 25, 1941

2) ROYAL OAK (29,150t, 1916), sunk by U-boat torpedo, Scapa Flow, Orkneys, October 14, 1939

AIRCRAFT CARRIERS:

Fleet carriers

3) ARK ROYAL (22,000t, 1938), torpedoed (13th) by U-boat and sunk, W Mediterranean, November 14, 1941

4) COURAGEOUS (22,500t, 1917, ex-cruiser, carrier from 1928), sunk by U-boat torpedo W of Ireland, September 17, 1939

5) EAGLE (22,600t, 1924), sunk by U-boat torpedo, W Mediterranean, August 11, 1942

Escort carriers

6) AUDACITY (ex-Hannover, German prize, 11,000t deep, 1939; as 9/41), sunk by U-boat torpedo, N Atlantic, December 21, 1941

7) AVENGER (13,785t deep, 2/3/42), sunk by U-boat torpedo, W of Gibraltar Straits, November 15, 1942

CRUISERS

8) BONAVENTURE (5,450t, 24/5/40), sunk by U-boat torpedoes, S of Crete, March 31, 1941

9) CAIRO (AA ship, 4,200t, 1919), sunk by U-boat torpedo, off Bizerta, Tunis, August 12, 1942

10) CALYPSO (4,180t, 1917), sunk by U-boat torpedo, S of Crete, June 12, 1940

11) DUNEDIN (4,850t, 1919), sunk by U-boat torpedo, between W Africa and Brazil, November 24, 1941

12) EDINBURGH (10,000t, 6/7/39), sunk by destroyer, torpedoes, after U-boat damage (30th Apr), Barent's Sea, Arctic, May 2, 1942

13) GALATEA (5,220t, 1935), sunk by U-boat torpedo, off Alexandria, December 14, 1941

14) HERMIONE (5,450t, 25/3/41), sunk by U-boat torpedo, E Mediterranean, June 16, 1942

15) NAIAD (5,450t, 24/7/40), sunk by U-boat torpedo, E Mediterranean,, March 11 1942

16) PENELOPE (5,270t, 1936), sunk by U-boat, torpedeo, Anzio area, W Italy, February 18, 1944

_______________________________________

Scanning above list, SEEMS to be

LOTS of "armed Tug-boats" sunk by them

Piddling little U-boots

With their torpedo pea-shooters, eh?

[Desert Dave]

And, doggone!

If TEN (10) of above weren't SUNK

In - gee, unbelievable!

The Mediterannean Seas!

So much for U-boots not able

To navigate past

Gibraltar rock.

[Blashy]

Oh they got passed the rock, but how many did not?

And it was not a whole fleet that got passed.

With that said, there should be an extra sea tile between Spain and Africa or something of that nature.

[Edwin P.]

Or U-Boats running silent should be able to sail through enemy port tiles, with a chance of taking damage from enemy ships in port.

Example:

U-Boat running silent sails through unoccupied port title = No Damage

U-Boat running silent sails through port tile occupied by Cruiser = Chance for Cruiser Attack on U-Boat based on relative experience (50% +/-10% per medal).

Example - Sub attempting to transit enemy port tile:

Sub 1 Medal, Enemy Cruiser 0 Medal = 40% Sub Attacked

Sub 2 Medal, Enemy Cruiser 0 Medal = 30% Sub Attacked

Sub 0 Medal, Enemy Cruiser 2 Medals = 70% Sub Attacked

Sub 4 Medal, Enemy Cruiser 2 Medal = 30% Sub Attacked

This would increase the importance of stationing a naval unit at the port of Gibraltar.

[ May 05, 2007, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[SeaMonkey]

Excellent Edwin, absolutely realistic. No need for an extra tile or a loop arrow, although with present game mechanics that is a possibility. Uboats should be able to transit the Med through Gibraltar straits with the same "silent running" feature that would make the open water corral, through surprise contact, obsolete.

DD ...amazingly thorough answer to Liam's question, interesting, 5 carriers to Uboats, that's on par with USN subs' Pacific performance.

Correct me , if I'm wrong!

[Blashy]

We have suggested that a long time ago, who knows, maybe one day.

[Liam]

I have heard of some of these, sinkings! Atrocious! A lot of action in the Mediterreanan, and I know the U-boat command payed dearly for every victory! We all know what the life expectancy was for U-boat men! Very low

These of course were the good ole days, most of these sinkings were early. When the RN was stretched thin, and was not learned to the tactics of Submarine warfare...

The Silent Service in the Pacific was more deadly than the U-boats, the figures there are dreadful! The Japanese invaded all those far away Islands and Territories for the Oil/Rubber and Tin we sent them!!! We made sure none got to Japan after a certian point in the war.

Would be nice if U-boats silent could be invisible! ASW used to detect them, perhaps this could offset the cost some and lower their combat ability toward Battleships. Above is mentioned 2 Battleships sunk by U-Boats! Only Though a Battleship could tap a U-boat and sink just by bumping it!

[Edwin P.]

It would also be nice if the chance for an attacking ship to make the first attack was not so predictable.

If a cruiser moves to attack a battleship, a warship with longer range guns, the battleship should have a chance to strike first; especially if its commander has more experience.

[ May 05, 2007, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]