I need some perspective on building my mod.

[hellraiser]

1. Currently, IT only makes sense for the Allies because it is applied only to national resources. Thus it makes no sense for Axis to invest in IT; Axis rely on conquests only for enlarging the mpp basis. That means balance.

2. At equal players' experience, it is very unlikely that Axis will hold every tile of the map for long. That's historical

3. To me, the game is pretty balanced so far - Axis have their shot early on, if they fail to get the upperhand, Allies' numbers will attrition and kill them.

4. If any adjustment are made in this respect, it may force the community to implement a bidding system (for getting the allies).

5. Conclusion - yes, the game plays pretty well H2H - for playing the AI (probably most people play the AI) adjustments are more than welcome IMO, to have a tougher game as Axis. Because, with all due respect to the game creator himself, playing as allies against the axis AI is not an option yet

[Blashy]

The game is pretty close to 50-50. But I still contend that if you put Terif vs. Terif, the Axis Terif will win everytime.

I still find a small Axis leaning. Terif made the same observation a few days ago.

Of course if you make a mod like mine AND you change the victory conditions. You don't need a bidding system, you just need to accept reality that Germany could not have won (i.e; defeated) facing all 3 majors, her best chances was a peace treaty, which IMHO would had been very possible had it not been for the idiot at the top. I think they could have held on and caused so many casualties that peace could have been accepted by Allies... IF the NAZIs were not in power, say a coup by the Military which is what we do as players, hehe.

[Liam]

Look truth be told, Axis do not have an advantage over Allies. I have never lost an Allied Game to any player but Terif since the release of 1.2 out of about I don't know 8 or 9 games... Against Skill levels as high as HellRaiser and Rambo, two of the top of 5 SC2 players... and most of the top 10 players with the most experience... As axis I have lost even with the upperhand. You CANNOT make errors then the Axis are Superior, if you are a Very good and Experienced Axis Player, otherwise most any player can Master Allies within 15-25 games... Though it'll take likely twice as many or three times as many unless you're taking notes to Master Axis..

HR will tell you in our current Game it's 1942, I made a big error and placed my Reds forward in open Terrain and was diced, but I had more Land units than he did in Russia in Spring of 1942 and probably in Summer of 1942 and he now has every Axis unit built due to the Scandanavian Linkup via Leningrad. In the West, I've built every Allied land unit I can build just about. Due to IT and Production and I'm getting close to maxing out every Russian unit given about a year that is A LOT OF UNITS! I will outnumber Axis and I will do a historical kill if HR cannot kill Russia in the Summer of 1942.. Thing vs a Player like Terif is by 1942 he'd of likely already maxed out any one of the nations including Germany as he makes flawless Moves that cost very little. He's a Budgeter and a very thoughful Tactician. Every dime accounted for in other words that translates into A LOT of units!

IT makes this game quite historical, my America is sending tons of Units into France, historically the American's and British weren't touching my D-Day of 1942, I have every American Armed Man in uniform and nearly all of them in France and the Brits though lagging behind are pretty in tech ;)this is completely ahistorical, but as fast as Germany can do in Russia I suppose no choice?

I will be pushing the Siegfried line in 1943, liberating Vichy and on average I'm killing 250,00 Axis troops per Month in the West.. meanwhile my Russians are being slaughtered by Superior Axis air... I'd say HR has built up a Beautiful Axis Force he still cannot punch through to the Rostov Line

[SeaMonkey]

Don't y'all get it? If we're arguing about which side is dominant and qualifying our different opinions.

Well......what does that mean?

[Konigs]

I agree with Hubert, Liam and Hellraiser, game is pretty balanced, actually might be slightly tilted towards the Allies. I mean strong D-day in '42, not likely. Of course if all resources directed to the liberation of France and no Torch, then it is likley. This then leaves axis with a strong MPPS base.

[Blashy]

Liam, no way you have more units TOTAL than Axis in 1942 in Russia.

I'm in testing phase right now and Axis forces only have historical countries minus Norway. They have 39 land units for Germany alone (55 total).

While USSR has IT level 4, I've had it for some time since 41 and USA has level 5 since summer of 41.

USSR Land units 23. USA land units 3. UK 12.

Sure I could have had 10 more land units for USA (bought 4 bombers instead) but at no tech in IW and AT at this time (3 chits in IW) I decided to bomb Germany down in MPPs.

But Imagine, Germany has 39 land units without Spain, Portugal, ALL the Vichy, Egypt, Iraq and Switzerland.

Easily 75% of Axis forces can be in USSR that is 40+ units, no way at maximum IT for USA and USSR can you build 40+ units for the push in 1942 (maybe at 0 tech all armies and corps, but they are useless). In my game 35 total units are in USSR, with 30 of them attacking.

As you all get experienced with the game you'll come to the same conclusion as Terif, myself and Desert Dave, Axis have the edge right now. And Axis will start winning everytime unless something is done via the editor (screw bidding system, just fix the campaign).

NOTE: And Germany has 1500mpps in the bank, Italy 500.

[Liam]

Blashy, for an example of a slow Allied game where I focused on Goodies and Tech instead of Building mass of units here is a idea of what I can build:

Sept 1942

Idea of a slow and fast game:

Currently 36 Live Russian Land Units, 12 were killed

12 USA Land Units...

13 British Land Units

5 Land units on the way in the build for all my Majors

IT 3 for USA and IT 2 for USSR, low Prod tech as well. USSR with IW3, had it for nearly 1 year along with tank tech3 for 2 years before the war, no good can't get lucky with the rolls besides these two, still no mobility! But I am holding Odessa and Moscow easily so far and it'll require the Luftwaffe to even consider removing me.. My Opponent just luckily took Leningrad before Winter of '43 rolls around...

In my Game with HellRaiser, Double all these Same time except British, and about 12 landbased aircraft, but also double the IT early and healthy

I'll admit I have every USA HQ built by the end of 1943 and nearly every US Land unit built as well. Now I will nearly have every US Fighter built... 2 bombers, and many many many techs!

IT is a gamebreaker for Allies, but you hope that your Axis player doesn't get lucky with his techs so you can balance it out. 10 units with low IW you're right are throwing spitballs, but if they back up in Russia, and wait and gain the Techs, who cares? 50 Russians will kill 30 Germans once they're out of supply and the Reds upgrade... Ask HR, the Axis Minor units are not included in the count.. He has built every Axis land unit in this game so I need these numbers, Axis plow through Allies with low supply and no defensible front if they catch them before they dig in!

P.S. what you describe building is interesting, Bombers are good, but do not win the war on land unless they're objectives with them. Pounding Axis MPPs is a waste of time, 4 AntiAir will destroy the effectiveness of bombers! Depending on luck I suppose you can enter Barbarossa with = Russian to German Units.. Not as many HQs and Air units Mind you! that's another 1500 MPPs right there, but you can have 2 HQs, 25 Land Units all IW3 AT3 Mobile 1. By Winter, you get Sibs, and build up another 10!

Originally posted by Blashy:

Liam, no way you have more units TOTAL than Axis in 1942 in Russia.

I'm in testing phase right now and Axis forces only have historical countries minus Norway. They have 39 land units for Germany alone (55 total).

While USSR has IT level 4, I've had it for some time since 41 and USA has level 5 since summer of 41.

USSR Land units 23. USA land units 3. UK 12.

Sure I could have had 10 more land units for USA (bought 4 bombers instead) but at no tech in IW and AT at this time (3 chits in IW) I decided to bomb Germany down in MPPs.

But Imagine, Germany has 39 land units without Spain, Portugal, ALL the Vichy, Egypt, Iraq and Switzerland.

Easily 75% of Axis forces can be in USSR that is 40+ units, no way at maximum IT for USA and USSR can you build 40+ units for the push in 1942 (maybe at 0 tech all armies and corps, but they are useless). In my game 35 total units are in USSR, with 30 of them attacking.

As you all get experienced with the game you'll come to the same conclusion as Terif, myself and Desert Dave, Axis have the edge right now. And Axis will start winning everytime unless something is done via the editor (screw bidding system, just fix the campaign).

NOTE: And Germany has 1500mpps in the bank, Italy 500.

[Konigs]

I have to agree with Liam, I thought I was ahead in a game with couple of individuals as axis or allies, and then was shocked by the size of their forces and beaten in both games. I was trying to tech and diplo too much and both times I was over ran by far larger forces. Both games by looking at map, I should have been ahead. In a current game, a Panzerliga individual launched a counter attack with Russian forces, including Siberians, he had 6 tanks level 2 or 3, 7+ corps and 7+ armies, I was able to turn his northern flank and stabilize front, but he drove to oil fields of ploesti. I think that would be considered pretty good balance. I am driving hard in '43, that most important part was the sving of German air forces, they helped turn the tide. I was thuroughly impressed with this strike, most surprising thing was I had concentrated my forces in the south and they were drove backwards.