Strategic Bombardments

[LordDread]

Hello to all ,

I see that there is a possible release coming

with this game soon , so i decided to post

again Does anybody out there know

what the Strategic Aspect of this game

Ie Bombers , Rockets and eventually

even Nukes is going to be like ?

What is the process ? Is it the same as before

fly a unit over a city and the city takes

economic damage or is it more interesting

in this game ? The original allowed a

small unit to defend an entire city from

bombing until the unit was destroyed and

to us that seemed unrealistic .

[ December 05, 2005, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: LordDread ]

[Codename Condor]

Sry m8 but yer post doesnt rhyme--->unreadable. u have to read 100 Desert Dave posts to get the feeling about the rhyme, then u can re-post.

[ December 06, 2005, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Codename Condor ]

[Edwin P.]

Strategic Bombers will affect the resources in a tile even if it is occupied by a unit.

[Edwin P.]

Question:

Have any of the beta testers tried a Strategic Bombing campaign against the Axis or allies?

[Retributar]

Topic: Will Allied Strategic Bombing Have Any Effect On The Game?

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000350

[LordDread]

Interesting topic thread retributar ..

I agree with you about the fact that

germany could have done better with

a bigger air force defending its critical

resources . ITs also great to hear that

a singe corps wont defend against a bombing

raid anymore . It seems that the designers

and testers have given great thought to

strategic Bombing and this area will be

much improved . I am looking forward

to seeing this interesting and challanging

game . It should keep all my friends and

myself busy for awhile

[LordDread]

Condor : I have read some of the people

out there that are great poets in there

own mind .. I dont have much time for

stuff like really . If someone likes to

be cute with some silly poem great more

power to them . I am more interested in

topics LIke retributar posted that make

Valid points that are backed up by facts

and not some silly little word play . If

you are interested in poems great I am happy

for you . I was simply looking for an

answer to a question of game mechanics .

I have better things to do than to come

to a company website looking for the

next Dr Seuss .... but if that is what

you enjoy great knock yourself out .

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by Codename Condor:

Sr m8 but yer post doesnt rhyme--->unreadable. u have to read 100 Desert Dave posts to get the feeling about the rhyme, then u can re-post.

LOL

[Codename Condor]

YOWZA, YOWZA, YOWZA!

being smacked for being funny aint fun i tell u.

Sry m8 for not unswerin' u but i knew Fast Eddie would jump in shortly for help.

U sure as hell cant spot a joker.

"I may not know a winner when i see one, but i sure as hell can spot a loser" from They shoot horses dont they?

[Desert Dave]

Ah gee,

The damned DaDa World may soon devolve

Into fast dwindling cinders of NADA, oh,

Tomorrow at noon,

And THIS is what we are in angst about?

(... where is Gary Cooper then you NEED 'im?

Or better! Princess Grace dancing - sans

Blue notes or clothes!

Under new winter Moon? :cool: )

"A silly and cute Dr Seuss?"

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Hey, you ken call me... Tom-Tom!

(Tired old man, tripping over a Muse)

Who... reaches behind the curtain,

Feels all around

For 'at old and mouldering trunk,

Who... opens the lid, with dumb

Clumsied fingers,

Shoves aside the toads

And s**t loads of junk, and!

Finally finds, why... 'is stock reply!

"Just havin' a little FUN over here,

Boss, should you not mind?"

Since - it be - a free & easy

Association of... gee-whiz,

Lookee See!

Kind of folks,

I mean.

OK, back to the plan at hand.

Strategic Bombing.

Yep, it's gonna be much better,

More cost-effective, I'd say,

And, well, hell, just plain old

FUN to play!

O Happy Day!

The Cat is - IN the Hat,

Big Bird is - absurdly, atwirp!

LOLOLOLOLOL!

[Codename Condor]

thats what im talkin about Dave, i dont understand a **** but it sounds great.

[Desert Dave]

... thats what im talkin about Dave, i dont understand a **** but it sounds great.

LOL, thanx CC, ... I think?

At's alright, I don't understand s**t

Neither, but a'times the sound of it

Relaxes me. :cool:

Like getting Feng Shui dirty down.

Or, re-arranging the little shiny rocks

In my living-room tide-pool.

It's that... wresting Order out of Chaos

What matters.

EACH person here, and I know most over

All these years,

Has their VERY OWN method of... going!

With the flow.

Cool Shades, babe. :cool:

____________________________

Seriously now.

We very well should have a much better

Game isofar as Strat Bombing goes.

Not only because you can hit the resource

Despite a unit atop,

But also due to the atttack ratings

Which CAN be edited, so,

Should you want a bit more rack 'em smack

Onto those chosen targets,

You CAN bump up the bomb-ability a bit. :cool:

Have no fear, nor enny Dread,

This aspect of SC-2 Blitzkreig!

WILL be as accomplished and accurate

As other aspects of game-play.

NO longer the high cost of doing

Bombing business.

Along with the new! AA-as-flak feature,

Everyone should have a grand old time

Trying to counter the bomb blows

By upgrading Ports (... IE, making of those 2

ports in Western France some sort of hardened

sub-pens) and Cities and Capitals

And Oil Wells and Mines.

Which ones? And when?

As I say, even MORE fun to be had!

[Edwin P.]

Do not forget as I recall that a bomber's range increases by 3 to 1 for each level in Long Range tech.

Thus the Brits can bomb not only Brussels but also Frankfurt, Berlin and Munich.

---------------------------------------------

I do wonder if the game's AI will include instructions on what to bomb and when and whether to change targets.

Will it bomb a port to prevent infantry from embarking (or disembarking), and stop the bombardment prior to D-Day?

Will it seek out targets within range not protected by flak or will it continually attack well protected cities and mines?

If Russia has a bomber will it be used to keep occupied cities from serving as a source of supply to the Axis invaders?

[ December 06, 2005, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by Codename Condor:

thats what im talkin about Dave, i dont understand a ****

Me neither, and the poems by "Desert Dave" are far worse than those of Immer Etwas. From Immer you suspected weird poems, but with Desert Dave you'll have to read everything to see if he put in something about the latest playtesting as he nowdays is Huberts best buddy.

poetry is kinda gay

gay(=happy)

[Codename Condor]

i thought Dave and Inmer were the same person, maybe he is writing worse on purpose to avoid suspicion.

[Desert Dave]

You just gotta admire.

That's quite a... one - two,

Kuni & CC... sucker-punch.

Never saw it coming!

LOLOL, cool. :cool:

Well,

It's been done before,

And, like back when,

I guess... I'll survive.

But, yer right.

Too much junk writing.

From now on - only facts

About the game.

The rest is REALLY kinda lame.

[JerseyJohn]

"Sorry sir, gunnery officer Dave said he can't fire that broadside till your orders are more poetic."

[Desert Dave]

Nah JJ,

No - Behemoth of the Sea be I, nix nix.

Just enjoying... yet another!

Phfishing expedition.

At's OK,

Just so long as everybody!

Can finally say,

S**t, it's a red-tooth & black-claw World

Out there, but, here... here

Where one is for all, and

All is for one,

Oh, ain't we got FUN!

[JerseyJohn]

DD

Your response reminds me of the weekend ventures my father and myself would take from Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn. We'd pack into a leased rowboat, nothing by oar power by the old man (I was four or five and couldn't help out) and he'd row out till the land on three sides became narrow ribbons, then he'd start fishing. I think he just wanted to get away from everybody.

The reason I'd go along was to watch the ships entering and leaving NY Harbor. Back then the Brooklyn Navy Yard was still very active and there would always be a cruiser or destroyer going past and almost swamping us in the wake.

Most of the sailors would scream to us that land was "Thataway!" pointing Northwest, as though we'd been shipwrecked instead of out Phfishing.

[Desert Dave]

Another great one! JJ,

Needs to be stretched out a bit

And stuck in that there book

Of short stories yer gonna

Hand carry over to

The discerning Publisher in NY, NY! :cool:

Yep, those were the days alright.

Nothin' to worry yer fool head about

Other than... the Red Menace,

And the truly horrible fact

Of the Yankees winning the AL pennant

Every damn year!

My club, the Indians - got it in the ear

Over & over again! Every season it was,

1951 to 1958. Oh, just great!

Once or twice - was NOT enough!

What a bludgeoning! with-the-back

Half-of-an-ax kind of world

We gotta dither and live in!

Which is WHY we need

Games.

And, more of them

"Rowboat-awash-in-Sheepshead Bay

With Dad and the glad-heart lad

Laughing with the sail-on sailors"

Sorts of stories, JJ!

Thanks, you've just made my day.

___________________________________

Note: to the one or two who actually read

the above post, LOL!

I have voluntarily edited my comments.

For one good & sufficient reason.

That content SHOULD have been posted in

General Forum,

Where, I just don't go, never, and so,

Now remains... my never-ending complaint

About them Damn Yankees!

Yeah, JJ, I do remember

That magic year when "dem Bums"

Whipped the pin-stripers

In 7th game - Johnny Podres shut 'em out,

Two to nothin'

But... the Bronx Bombers'll probably win it again!

Next year too!

______________________

Also wanted to add...

A day is made TWICE!

And,

That's not merely some glad hand,

It's old-fashioned - nice.

Thanks kindly CC,

Did you write that by any chance?

If so, you are needing

To visit that very same publisher

As JJ goes see.

"If you want to learn this game, you got to have a reason to win. You gotta learn to sink the money ball under pressure". He was right.

Yep, you do.

Only, to my way of thinkin'

And pardon the intrusion,

The ball rolls, goes by name of - Odd,

Not... "money."

And not begotten

In enny pool hall or stolen

From ol' Croesus... that's truely useless.

Odd is, IMHO - a wonderful Manna,

Like some molten gold honey. :cool:

[ December 08, 2005, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[Codename Condor]

"The pool hall was dark, and just wide enough for one row of six or seven tables. There were three large windows at one end. I don't remember how they covered them to block the light, but I know they did, because pool players were allergic to sunlight. Many found oxygen hard to deal with. They read the newspaper by tilting it toward the lights over a table. The newspaper was important back then. It carried important news that they discussed in the back room. They read the paper first thing in the morning, always seated on the same chair with their coffee. I don't know who assigned them their chairs, but they seemed to know where they belonged. They didn't talk in the morning. Their hair was slicked back, and their furrowed faces freshly washed and shaven, so I know they left the place at night. I found out later most lived alone in a hotel room. I'm glad I didn't know that back then. Even now I'm sorry I found out. It hurts somehow.

The old men didn't start shooting pool until late in the afternoon. Some days not at all. The rack man was old too, and although I never saw him take a drink, I never saw him sober. I am convinced he absorbed ambient alcohol fumes through his skin. He wore the rack on his head, and shuffled slowly from table to table, as if his hemorrhoids were about to fall out on the floor. He collected ten cents before racking the balls for a new game. He never asked for the money. He would just stand there waiting for you to realize you owed him something. I don't know if he could shoot pool, although I had the feeling finding out could prove expensive. The regulars tipped him well, and seemed to care.

...

When I was old enough to play myself, I asked Mousie to teach me pool. He agreed, but required that I play him for money. "If you want to learn this game, you got to have a reason to win. You gotta learn to sink the money ball under pressure". He was right.

I played him for a dollar a game, and always lost. But he never took more than a few dollars from me. He made me stop, simply saying I had lost enough, and that I had to learn when to quit. That is hard advice for a young man to take, but there is none better. During my 40 years of pool playing, I have never been hustled out of a significant amount of money. I knew when I was shooting a better player, and I wasn't too proud to back off. My fear of losing money kept me from becoming a good pool player. But then again, I had a family and other interests in life. Mousie probably knew I would.

I don't remember any of the old men ever teaching me how to hold a stick or stroke a shot. They never told me how to aim or what to expect of the cue ball after shooting. When I made a mistake that they thought was serious, I was simply told it was stupid. It was left to me to reason why. I usually did. The old men were good teachers, because they didn't impose their game on me. Pool requires creative thinking and constant reappraisal. What makes the game so great is that it changes with each player's personality. A lot of players shoot equally as well. It is the great thinker, the creative mind that will most consistently prevail.

I don't know what happened to the pool hall, or to Mousie and Polkadot. Today we have "upscale" billiard rooms with clean air and bright lights. They serve meals, and the back rooms are used to store inventories and supplies. People seem to want it that way. It's okay I guess, but something is missing. Now I am one of the old men. I shoot in a new upscale billiard parlor where I can have dinner with Pat in the bright lights and clean air, while watching a big screen TV. I never did learn to shoot pool as well as Mousie. He'd be proud of me. I know why." Jim Meador RIP.

[JerseyJohn]

Condore,

And that was when Fats eased over to the table and said, "Step aside, boys, there's only one man in all the world who can make that shot. And you're looking at him."

DD

Ah, nostalgia, the days when the world was still just simple enough to head out in a rowboat with a paper bag full of sandwiches, a few beers and sodas and maybe even one of those new fangled transistor radios.

Yup, the Yankees were everybody's enemy. Only two AL teams got past them in the whole decade, your Indians in 54 and the W. Sox in 59, both led by Al Lopez. It wasn't so much like having to get past the Yanks in the AL, it was more a matter of beating the previous season's All Star Team as the Bronx boys always seemed to end up with everyone else's best talent, added to their own, of course. Sound familiar?

One fine October day when I was six there was a roar all through Brooklyn that lasted for hours. Nothing much, just the day our Bums finally won game seven from the Bombers. I don't think they'll ever be another crosstown rivalry like the fifties Bronx-Brooklyn with the Giants thrown in for good measure.

Anyway, at least the teams of that era had an identity. The best players stayed on the roster for six or seven or ten years, except for the ones bought by the Yanks to keep a sinking franchise like KC or Washington afloat.

And thank you to you too, sir, I always enjoy these strolls down memory lane. And this time we were even treated to pocket billiards by our friend Condore.

[Desert Dave]

If Russia has a bomber will it be used to keep occupied cities from serving as a source of supply to the Axis invaders?

Actually, EP, that strategem can be a pretty good stop-gap measure. :cool:

I recently completed a full '39 campaign game, and this is what happened:

The GErmans and Italians mustered enough forces to finally drive UK out of Egypt.

(... not to worry, this is being tweaked so that it MIGHT happen that Axis can take all of Mid East, only it won't be quite so easy as it was)

Anyway, Italy bought a Strat Bomber, and while FM Rommel and the DAK was fending off USA in Algeria and Tunisia, Italy used their tank unit and a couple Corps, commanded by Guzzoni, in order to take Iraq AND Iran.

Well, they were THEN able to position their Regia Aeronautica Bomber in such a way (... having also gotten L-1 long-range) as to air-raid the two southern most Oil Wells in Russia.

Each turn they would nail 'em, so that Russia constantly had two size ZERO resources.

That's a loss of 60 MPP's!

OK, the Reds should have researched AA, and upgraded the Oil so that the Bomber could be attacked with flak.

(... also, the SB was being escorted by an experienced L-2 Italian Squadra 1 AF, and it easily deflected the lower rated AF that the Reds could then spare from the Eastern Front)

Next time.

So, the Strategic Bomber WILL play a much more comprehensive role in SC-2.

It serves as a Naval Bomber, whereas the Air Fleet is not so effective attacking surface ships or subs.

It reduces entrenchment levels.

And, it doesn't cost as much as it used to.

Do the research, and build it up to L-3, 4 or even 5 and you'll have a VERY potent weapon.

[SeaMonkey]

So Dave,

You completed the whole campaign? Interesting.....did you report any bugs?

Seems we may be close......Hubert, any thoughts for the final tweaks?

[JerseyJohn]

Originally posted by Desert Dave:

... So, the Strategic Bomber WILL play a much more comprehensive role in SC-2.

It serves as a Naval Bomber, whereas the Air Fleet is not so effective attacking surface ships or subs. ...

Unfortunately that's an incorrect historical role. If you had one aircraft at your disposal to drop a bomb on a warship, which would you prefer, a B-29 or a Dive Bomber?

Strat Bombers, I presume would be the very large four engine types, such as B-17s, B-29s, Lancasters, etc. ... It was almost impossible for them to hit anything as small as a -- Battleship! I mean, even if it were anchored in port. The bombsights were expected to deliver the load within, what -- 1,000 - 2,000 or so feet of the target under ideal conditions. Ships maneuvering at sea were far from ideal conditions. At Midway, the U. S. B-17s didn't score a single hit; not even a particularly near miss.

German Condors and American B-25s were about the largest aircraft capable of dropping a bomb on a moving vessel. And even in their cases, a torpedo plane, dive bomber, or low altitude level bomber would have had a far greater chance.

I strongly suggest this part of the game be reversed. Air Fleets should be the weapon of choice against naval units, not strategic bombers, which were mainly empoloyed in spotting naval units rather than attacking them.