Will SC2 and Grigsby's World at War compete or compliment each other.

[KDG]

Do you think SC2 and Grigsby WAW will compliment each other, or compete with each other. I'm looking forward to both games and after reading some of the AAR's of WAW, it looks like they both should reside on every wargamers shelf.

While I'd never want to give up playing SC & SC2(the detail is at the perfect level for me) it would seem that WAW is a very very advanced version of Axis & Allies, with a strong AI thrown in to boot.

I know some people from these boards are play testing it right now. Thoughts?

[J P Wagner]

I am a tester for WaW and I can safely say that they compliment each other and are as different as night and day so you will not feel that you are playing the same type of game....keep in mind that SC2 will have a fantastic editor that many of us are as eager to get our hands on as the game itself...WaW, altenately, offers a nice WWII strategic game on all fronts with a good research and production phase as well, and while I think some may be turned off by WaW's area map, I know first hand that they will be making a mistake if they do...SC2 will still be the front runner in the strategic WWII European theater and you will have a tactical feel for the battles in SC2 that will not be present in WaW...I have no hesitation in recommending SC2 and WaW and will be looking forward to playing them both!..

[ October 07, 2004, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: J P Wagner ]

[pzgndr]

And from the SC2 playtesting corner, I echo what JP said. I also saw a GGWAW demo at WBC a couple of months ago, and could list dozens of differences between the two games. They will definitely compliment each other. I am looking forward to WAW for the WWII global grand strategy experience. :cool:

I am NOT looking forward to the tough decisions I'll have to be making regarding which games to actually PLAY when I get the chance. Anglo-German War is also coming out, Empires in Arms, Guns of August, Silent Hunter III ... :eek:

[it's Les]

Well after playing HoI (yes quit freaking out I played it ok), the only mistake a person will be capable of making in the field of grand strategy for the near future, is buying HoI2.

And if you don't like that remark, tough friggin luck.

I saw HoI for what it is long ago, but now I have proof.

The game is garbage.

WaW and SC will be just fine together as long as both are decent games.

Now we have seen SC and thus we are aware of what SC2 can be. WaW though, it will have to put i n it's time on people's computers like all games have to.

[J P Wagner]

Originally posted by pzgndr:

And from the SC2 playtesting corner, I echo what JP said. I also saw a GGWAW demo at WBC a couple of months ago, and could list dozens of differences between the two games. They will definitely compliment each other. I am looking forward to WAW for the WWII global grand strategy experience. :cool:

I am NOT looking forward to the tough decisions I'll have to be making regarding which games to actually PLAY when I get the chance. Anglo-German War is also coming out, Empires in Arms, Guns of August, Silent Hunter III ... :eek:

Bill, I apologize for steering this a bit off topic, but I now have doubts about Guns of August....Frank made the comment that he does not care if the AI can beat a Human player as he is more attuned to the PBEM aspects of the game...I commented on his quote at the Matrix board....

[pzgndr]

Whether games compete with or compliment each other is entirely on-topic with KDG's post. It's the how's and whys that are interesting.

For example, GGWAW will not have politics and diplomacy. That may prove to be a weakness since many players eagerly expect some historical variability and what-ifs. Then again, the AI doesn't have to worry about it so perhaps it will be very good at what it does and prove to be a strength. We'll have to see.

As for the Guns of August AI, the learning mode feature intrigues me. I'm very curious to see how it works. And the scale and scope of this and SC2 are very similar so it will be useful to compare game features. The game market will continue to evolve, with everyone watching everyone else to see what works well and what doesn't.

One thing is for sure, we're finally seeing several decent grand stategy PC wargames emerging. Several years ago before SC1 and HOI, there wasn't much of anything except Third Reich, High Command and Clash of Steel.

[Kuniworth]

Grigsby's game will compete more with axis and allies than sc 2. Only thing to compete with sc 2 would be a remake of clash of steel or a new third reich.

[Desert Dave]

For example, GGWAW will not have politics and diplomacy. That may prove to be a weakness since many players eagerly expect some historical variability and what-ifs. Then again, the AI doesn't have to worry about it so perhaps it will be very good at what it does and prove to be a strength. We'll have to see.

We will.

Have to see, I mean.

No politics? Or diplomacy?

No remote chance of... what-ifs?

No thrilling variations?

Conquer all of Denmark and France,

And all of Norway and Yugoslavia

On the very FIRST turn?

Poland already hands-down done for you

In a turn you never even get to see?

Huge clumpish clods of units

That you oh, PUSH from one huge area

Over to another huge area?

Then,

WATCH & whistle while the computer does all

The maneuvering and fighting?

Hmmmmmm,

And speaking of pushing ...

I am guessing

That after 3 or 4 games, at most,

And once you have solved

The VERY simple S&T routines,

And come to realize WHAT works

And how and when,

Then you play that 5th or 6th game?

You may indeed come to resemble

Our ol' pal... Sisyphus,

The old Greek thief who somehow offended

The old Greek Gods.

That's all right,

We each probably offend any number of Gods

Several times each & every day. :eek:

[... sad, but THEY never come right out

and TELL us just what awful foolery we did!]

Thing is,

WE... don't THEN have to push some boulder

Up the hill,

Whereupon,

Of course... the dumb thing is destined

To roll right back down... so, sure,

We gotta push it back up

Over and over and over.

And over.

And over and over

And over and over and over and over

And over and over and over.

All over again.

Sorry, y'all, but I just don't see it.

How THAT kind of exercise

Could be much... fun.

Could be wrong.

Hope for everyone eager's sake

That I am.

Yep,

I very probably am.

[ October 08, 2004, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[Kuniworth]

Desert Dave;

do you got any contact with Immer these days? Can you tell him that we miss him and wish to see him soon?

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by the irrepressible Kuni:

Desert Dave;

do you got any contact with Immer these days? Can you tell him that we miss him and wish to see him soon?

Well,

Immer is in a safe

Sort of place where everyday

Ordinary and.. SANE humans

Can't get... at him.

Maybe for the best.

He and I are old Road pals,

Having once hiked from Maine

To Mission-house California with only

A napsack filled with jerky and green tea,

So,

Then I see him again

(... he does ask for old copies

of Sport magazines

from the 1950s and 60s, which

I truly try to find in yard-sales

and the like places)

I will send along yer best wishes.

[it's Les]

Kuni, are you the only person unable to tell that Dave is Immer?

[Shaka of Carthage]

pzgndr, wish I had known you were at WBC. I was as well. Would have bought you a drink. I also saw the demo setup, but never got a chance to see the demo.

[jon_j_rambo]

Can Grisby make a TCP/IP game? Until then, well, he can't compete with SC or SC-2.