game freezes...what is big time software doing about it?

[Rabbit]

It seems that there are many people with good computer systems who are having trouble with game freezes and errors. In all the responses that I see in this discussion group people are trying to alter their own systems to try to deal with these problems.

I would like to hear some response from the creators of CM regarding their actions to finding solutions to this obviously wide spread problem. Alternatively a patch to fix these issues would be much better news.

[xanthosis]

My game used to freeze every 10-15 moves but I think I fixed the problem. I went into the direct3d settings and turned on v-sync, turned off antialiasing, turned the mipmap detail level to high performance, and I also turned off ambient sounds in the game. Now I've played 5 or 6 games with no freezing at all, I had one error but I was able to continue playing. Also I set the AGP aperature size to 16mb. I dont know if this will help your problem though.

[kmead]

I don't believe all that many people are suffering freezes. Most problems tend to be related to video cards and drivers relative to direct X or in Mac OS just the base line drivers for earlier versions of te OS. Having a "good computer system" is no guarantee that it will run all games/applications correctly. Settings also can have a big influence on the reliability of the system relative to applications, and I think that is what we are seeing. Keeping in mind the variety of possible hardware/software combinations possible, I am frankly impressed at the small number of problems I have seen. If you look at the number of thrreads in the tech forum: 671 over more than two years (this forum has been in use since the beta demo) that is just over 11% of registered users, some of whom have registered just so they can get a tech question answered, thats pretty good when you consider that there are probably around a a 100000 copies of the software around (maybe more who knows ) which would bring it down to very small number 6/10ths of a percent that had problems that they couldn't resolve themselves.

So, now that I have answered your question, do you have a problem with your CMBO installation someone here can help you resolve, or are you just here to Troll?

[CushVA]

I'm having the same problems. The screen just freezes when I start a scenario/battle (usually during the deployment phase)

I just installed it on my new PC {w/ the latest patch & full install} a: 1.1 AMD Athlon, MSI GeForce 2 MX, and 128 PC100 RAM plus WIN ME

It ran fine on my old system: A P2 233, Matrox Millennium G200 (plus a 12meg Moster 3d II V2) w/ 128 SDRAM

Cush

[ 05-07-2001: Message edited by: CushVA ]

[Schrullenhaft]

I doubt that the problems some people are having are due to bugs in CM's code. A lot of people on the PC side are purchasing AMD-based systems and these systems notoriously require more tweaks to get them running properly than most other systems.

CushVA - have you installed the latest VIA drivers for your motherboard (I assume that it's based on a VIA chipset) ? What version of the NVidia/MSI drivers do you have installed ? What version of DirectX are you running (WinME comes with 7.1) ? Are you overclocking either the GPU or the memory on your GeForceMX ? Do you have any other lockups on your computer outside of CM ?

[Rabbit]

Thank you all for your responses.

The question I asked is "What is BTS doing about it?" This question still remains outstanding.

Also I am somewhat alienated by the statistics put forward by kmead that 11% of registered users have had to have tech questions answered. I feel that this statistic supports my proposition that BTS should be doing something about this to make CM more system friendly.

In regards to my specific problem I am using the lowest graphics setting above software.

These are my system statistics:

433 Celeron

32Mb ASUS AGP nRIVA TNT2 video card

128Mb RAM

Creative AWE64 sound card

DirectX 7.0

I have all the latest drivers.

I have taken the advice from xanthosis onboard and will see how things go.

Regards

Rabbit

[CushVA]

I have a COMPAQ, so I'm not sure what type of MoBo it is.

I have DX 8.0 and the Dent 3 drivers

Cush

[kmead]

That was 11% of registered forum users. That doesn't include all of the other people who have never posted and does include all of the extraneous threads that are about things BTS has nothing to do with like how to set up your router and so on.

My apologies if my tone was not exactly to your liking, the way you posted your querry made it unclear as to whether or not you actually had a problem. Now it is clear that you do have a problem.

I am sure MadMatt will be along sometime to give you BTS's take on your post and your issues.

Generally I find that people will respond to the tone of a post, negative begets negative and positive can garner more assistance. In my time here on the board since the summer of 1999, I haven't seen nor heard about all that many problems, thus the thrust of my intial post back to you.

Good luck and I hope that your problem gets resolved to your satisfaction.

[ 05-07-2001: Message edited by: kmead ]

[Ellros]

I have to agree with what the others have said. I (and others I know who have the game) have never experienced any game freezes. Most of the problems we have had deal with video problems, which is usually a problem of wrong/outdated/incorrectly-installed drivers, or something that is system specific.

I don't profess to be a computer expert, but from reading the posts on this forum, very few of the problems people have had with CM are program related. They are mostly problems with the individual's system and how they have it configured (eg video drivers).

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[WWB]

Rabbit,

A couple things to try:

a) Get DirectX 8.0a from microsoft. I was having some funky graphics glitches until I installed it.

Try going back to the 6.47 drivers. They helped out some other funky graphics issues I had with the 6.50 drivers.

c) Is your system overclocked? CM is notoriously bad at dealing with OCed systems, and especially with OCed graphics cards.

e) What OS are you using. If it is WinME, that might well be the problem.

WWB

[Schrullenhaft]

CushVA - do you know exactly which version of the drivers you are running ? Some people experience problems with different versions of the NVidia Detonators and even these problems aren't consistent. Many people have had problems with Detonators above 6.50 (and some, conversely, have had better experiences with the newer "beta" drivers).

I'd also highly suggest minimizing the number of applications running in the background with either the "Ctrl-Alt-Del" method or with a utility.

[Greenman]

I've had issues with the demo (I'm waiting for the game!).

The demo runs beautifully on my desktop, Celeron 350, 96mgs ram, basic vid card.

But on my laptop PIII 750, 128 ram, Rage mobility II, I've annoying freezes.

I'm no computer wiz, but searching the tech board has been so helpful. I got the EndItAll utility and set my graphics acceleration to the lowest limit. The game was worked liked a beaut since. I just wanted to thank everybody and BTS for the help they've offered over the last year of freeze posts. Thanks also for the obvious patience at seeing this post return every month or so.

One question, in case I encounter more probs, I wanted to set my AGP to 16 megs as recommeded. Does anyone know how to access the Bios on a Dell Inspirion 4000? The help file says to hold down delete as you boot up, but that didn't work for me, just made a very annoying noise.

Thanks again for all the help.

[CushVA]

Version 650...tried earlier versions, no luck

[ 05-08-2001: Message edited by: CushVA ]

[Schrullenhaft]

CushVA - you may want to try some newer Detonators out to see if they help your situation or not. I'd also suggest an installable copy of DirectX 8.0a. The following site divides up the NVidia Betas into series, so they'll be several choices under the 6.xx, 7.xx and 1x.xx listings that you may want to check out. A number of people have had problems with the latest Betas from NVidia, but some have had success. I'd suggest the 7.xx series to see if they work for you or not (the 1x.xx series may be a bit too buggy). I'd also suggest uninstalling your video drivers and possibly installing a "Standard PCI SVGA" driver instead of the GeForce2MX driver before installing the newer drivers.

3D Chipset:

http://www.3dchipset.com/beta/nvidia/nvidia.html

Greenman - You need to press the Delete key (Del) when your computer is counting memory (and before it shows the Windows logo on the screen - by this point it is too late). However, there's a very good possibility that the Dell CMOS/BIOS settings don't allow you to adjust the AGP Aperture below 32Mb (if any adjustment is allowed). You may want to adjust any power saving features you have in either the CMOS/BIOS setup or via any control panels or utilities for power saving.

If you haven't updated them already, there may be newer drivers on Dell's website for the Rage Mobility chipset. The ones I see on their site for Win9x are dated 9-29-2000. There are some new BIOS updates too (A09 is the latest version), but they most likely don't address the particular problem you are having.

Dell Inspiron 4000 drivers: http://support.us.dell.com/us/en/filelib/index.asp?sid=INS_PNT_CEL_4000

[CushVA]

[ 05-08-2001: Message edited by: CushVA ]

[danyzn]

I have been playing CM on software mode on my Dell Inspiron 7500 Laptop ever since I got tired of the freezes. I tried some of the fixes but nothing worked. It's addictive enough in software mode, so I'm not complaining. Well ... OK I'm complaining a little.

Some 3-D programs work fine with my system and some don't, and I can't help wondering what is the difference between the two sets of software that accounts for this, and whether there is something that BTS can do to move CM from one to the other.

[CushVA]

I've tried just about everything I can think of, different drivers, playing off of my 2nd HD. No luck.

[ 05-09-2001: Message edited by: CushVA ]

[Schrullenhaft]

danyzn - laptop video drivers are very hard to deal with. They usually don't get driver updates as often as desktop based video chips and they're often scaled down in their capabilities for power conserving reasons. The other games that work fine... are they DirectX-based 3D games or are they based on OpenGL (like most FPS games are) ? CM may also be more memory intensive than some other 3D games because of the number of units or textures that are loaded up (and the manipulation of the view point and how that resizes textures, etc.), not to mention that the AI and fire solution routines are quite a bit more compute intensive than many 3D shooters (which are primarily concerned with drawing the playing environment and multiplayer tracking).

Unfortunately there is very little BTS can do about the problems that some peole are seeing. The developer's of the video chip are responsible for the driver implementation and often on laptops this sort of support is lacking. And with the flurry of new models and the un-upgradability of almost all laptops make them yesterday's news and concern to most manufacturers as they develop another model with more features and better battery power...

CushVA - I would suggest uninstalling all of your NVidia-related video drivers and making sure that your video card is detected as a "Standard PCI SVGA" adapter. Once this is done install DirectX 8.0a (even if you have done it before). After the requisite reboots install the NVidia driver of your choice (being aware that some of the newer "beta" drivers do have problems for some cards and/or games).

Another thing to check is to see if your video card and sound card share an IRQ. If they do, they you could get possible freezing problems (especially in big scenarios, etc.). What sound card do you have installed ?

You may want to try "EndItAll" to kill other programs and utilities running in the background that can have a substantial effect on the way CM operates.

[CushVA]

How do I uninstall the drivers? Just remove the device?

I have a SB Live X-Gamer. My system came with onboard audio (which I've disabled). It says there are no conflicts with other devices

What about D3D settings? Can adjusting those help? I've noticed that when CM goes through the 3D DdirectX Display Test the first you run it, I get D3D errors "Can't Initialize D3D" {or something similar}

Thanks,

Cush

[ 05-09-2001: Message edited by: CushVA ]

[Schrullenhaft]

Depending on the installer the driver may be listed in the Add/Remove Programs control panel. Otherwise I'd suggest booting into Safe Mode and deleting the video card from the Device Manager listing and then deleting the related .INF files from the C:\WINDOWS\INF\OTHER directory. If there are any associated video applets you may want to uninstall those too.

The "Can't Initialize D3D" error you get is probably because you've reached the last possible resolution/refresh rate combination without making a selection and CM rarely (I haven't seen it do so) cycles back to the current desktop resolution to start over again.

The latest drivers I've seen for the Live! series of cards is dated May 5,2000 (which the X-Gamer most likely comes with).

Actually you can be sharing an IRQ and not have a conflict according to Microsoft. This is quite true, but some drivers and devices won't get along very well if they're sharing an IRQ, especially if both devices are being used heavily. You can launch the System Information applet to find out your IRQ usage - go to Start Menu > Programs > Accesories > System Tools > System Information program > click on the plus next to "Hardware Resources" and then highlight the "Conflicts/Sharing" listing. You'll eventually get a list of devices that are conflicting or sharing their IRQs. You can ignore anything that says "IRQ Holder for PCI Steering" since that will be present for each PCI related device. If you sound card and video card are sharing an IRQ, then you could have potential problems (though there isn't a guarantee of this if they are sharing IRQs).

[CushVA]

Ok, it says that the SB and GF2 card are sharing IRQ 3. Says it can't be changed. Any ideas? I've heard that if you change PCI slots that can change the IRQ.

Cush

[ 05-09-2001: Message edited by: CushVA ]

[ 05-09-2001: Message edited by: CushVA ]

[Schrullenhaft]

Unforutnately there's no way of changing the IRQ from software for a PCI device (the PNP OS does that). The AGP card is often going to share an IRQ with the PCI slot next to it (and sometimes the second one down too, depending on how many PCI slots you have). So if your Live! card is in the PCI slot next to the video card you'll need to move it. However you'll need to uninstall your sound drivers before doing this (since Windows often attempts to keep the IRQs the same, even if the device has changed slots and been reassigned a different IRQ by the BIOS).

Also, before removing the drivers and moving the sound card, check to see what IRQs are free or that could be shared without too many problems. If you don't have too many (or no) USB devices, you could probably share an IRQ with that controller. Typically you'll only have 4-5 IRQs that can be used among your PCI/AGP devices. Your video card will take one, sound card another, USB another and any other PCI devices such as modems and network cards. Check your motherboard manual to find out the IRQ sharing scheme between the PCI slots so that you can share (or preferably get an unique) IRQs between devices that won't cause you problems.

Some BIOS/CMOS setup programs allow you to turn off "PNP OS" assignment of IRQs and instead leave it to the PNP BIOS to assign them (this is the setting that I mentioned earlier where Windows attempts to maintain the IRQ even when the BIOS assigns it a different one). This might be preferable to disable this setting. Some BIOS/CMOS setups also allow you to select the IRQ to be assigned to each PCI slot, so you may want to check this out (but not too many allow this). You may also want to "disable" the ACPI feature (or it's IRQ allocation) since it can gooble up an IRQ and not provide a whole in return.

Once you boot up most BIOSs will tell what the IRQ assignment is for the PCI devices. You'll want to check what they are to see if what has been assigned which IRQs. In Windows you can then reinstall your sound drivers (preferably have your files extracted for installation or have your sound driver CD ready).

[ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Rabbit]

OK see this is what I'm talking about. Why are people needing to go to such lengths with altering their configurations and even altering thier BIOS. All other programs/games that I have bought work under my current system requirements.

As a note to the people who say "all my friends have no problems", I say everybody I know who bought the game has these problems.

So my original question remains. A lot of people (registered or not) have trouble running CM smoothly. WHAT IS BTS DOING ABOUT IT????

[joeski]

Rabbit, everyone has different systems, differenet video cards, different programs installed, different sound cards, different OS's. If you have never had a problem playing a computer game you would be considered lucky. What it your suggestion that BTS do? :eek:

[CushVA]

My SB Card is at IRQ 11, my GF2 Card is at IRQ 3

My SB is actually a X-Gamer 5.1