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Terif vs Liam, Stalingrad & Atlantic


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After an early conquest of France, the British moved their imperial chess piece over Iraq drawing from them their material resource and the entirety of the MiddleEast until late well into '41

Churchill felt this the only way to compensate for the weakness in France the poor performance of the French Army. Regardless of the Political cost the UK occuppied both Norway and Sweden outright despite WorldWide Protest to devoid the resources their to the German War Machine.

As Predicted and without warning the German Army crosses the Russian border and BlitzKriegs all the way to the Gates of Moscow and all the way to the Gates of Stalingrad...

Meanwhile The People's General Field Marshall Zhukov recently promoted conquoring Finland moves into the Field there to push back the Huns!

6 Armored Armies, dozens of Corps and many many armies move foward with air power and katuyshas, the unprepared Germans in the Early Winter of '42 are freezing in their boots and some early success is taken, ground is retaken all over the map, but this is shortlived as the muddy weather soon sets in and German Aircraft can fly in clear skies...

Meanwhile in the West the Allies prepare for D-Day a long awaited Second front, accumulating supplies, Leaders, Units... Tons of Allied Fighters and bombs reign down terror all over the Axis rear guard, but they're well entrenched behind their Atlantic Wall and there seems to be no hope of an immediate hope for Stalin!

So in light of this and the grave situation, Commander Zhukov Pushes all of his Units foward, badly damaging many key and vital Axis Units. The Axis almost lose steam and are almost forced to pull back from the siege of Stalingrad, but then come back with a renewed vigor with the news off the Coast of the USA... U-Boat Aces rack up the kills, Brandy is served for the Axis Men at the front!

Axis Subs raiding US and UK Commerce had planned an ultra top secret operation. To utterly cripple Allied Attempts to prepare for their D-Day and this is achieved by skimming off a good 30-45% of Allied shipping and even killing the most famous American Commander in Chief in the field... Though At the cost of the entire Axis Navy assuredly but the sacrifice by the Il Duce and the Fuhrer cannot be overlooked, all Americans Mourn... While IN port and preparing to embark for Europe, Dwight D. Eisenhower meets a dreadful fate. Sunk while he slept! Doctors say it was a painful death.. Americans will accept no less than the death of every floating Axis Vessel, right now as we speak, every thing that can float is being loaded with explosives, wadding off shore to ram the Migthy Goliaths of the Axis Navys to show them we will never Surrender, no on land, not at sea nor in the air, we shall Triumph.. Never has there been a greater Cause

Kill Totals:

15 Axis

25 Reds

Mostly Minor UK so no real dead

1 US HQ

several ships on both sides, both navys still full power but not for long

dozens and dozens of strengthpoints... MPPs in the middle, but as '42 winds down there is no more space in Russia and there must be a crippling blow in the West or Else it is EndGame

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Strategic Command 2 War

Breaking News...July 1942:

- german civil cruise ships attacked by american war criminals...

- in response germany declares unlimited naval warfare and dispatches a large naval task force against the US

- as first stage US war criminals in their so called battleships get sunk south of Halifax...

- second stage: italian and german warships blockade all US coastal cities and scout for possible landing spots...

- heavy fightings around New York after the naval bombardment begins...the city is burning and landing forces prepare to disembark...Eisenhower HQ and his staff destroyed...US population in shock...having to recognize they are not save behind the ocean, hiding now in their cellars with axis shells exploding around them ...german marines ready to soon accept the american capitulation in front of the White House :D

Meanwhile on the continent...

The unprovoked ambush by UK forces against Scandinavia in 1940, followed by russian aggression against Finland 1941 involving 4 russian tanks, 5 armies and all russian airplanes could not pass by unpunished:

In reaction to this massive allied force concentration in the northern region, Axis chose to ignore the upper part of Russia including Moskow....threwing everything at Barbarossa start immediately against the soft underbelly of Russia: in the largest airdrop operation of the war german paratroopers occupied during the first Barbarossa turn the russian fortress Sevastopol, destroy an engineer unit preparing fortifications around the mines and cut off all russian forces in the Odessa region...soon to be taken prisoner by the rapidly advancing axis troops. Within a matter of weeks Kharkov with its fortifications and Rostov had fallen, Stalingrad under siege already in October 1941. Simultaneously german forces entered Caucasus via Iran, destroying both oilfields near Baku while paratroopers from Rostov conquered the oilfields of Maikop, this way eliminating the last russian oilsupply.

With bad weather setting in, russian winter effect hitting and every russian soldier and tank operating to Stalingrad and Caucasus, Axis forces now finally had to consolidate their gains, resupply and retreat back into winter positions behind river Don...around the 3 russian oilfields a partisan war started with all oilfields switching ownership several times during winter 41/42...

Freezing winter weather in December 1941 brought with it an awesome russian force consisting of all 6 tanks and dozens of armies and corps....approaching the riverline...flooding against the german defence systems...

...and more fast than slowly, dying man after man...tank after tank getting destructed...until eventually only a last russian tank was left of the once proud russian forces... smile.gif

...and so now in July 1942 the german Summer offensive begins: Stalingrad and Moskow conquered, the remaining russian forces near Rostov cut off, Valutin HQ next to Grozny shot down to strenght 1 with german corps and tanks in the outskirts of the city...

...on the other side of the world D-day has just begun with UK forces landing in Brest – german defenders man the fortification systems from Bordeaux till Paris....but the main battle in the west has just begun: the Battle for USA and control of the Atlantic with the entire Axis fleet outside New York – so far only US battleships at the bottom of the sea, no total losses for Axis smile.gif ...we will see how long it stays that way... :D

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Yes, a Bloody Summer Defensive for the Russians, The Entire Russian Army with Vatutin escapes the Neck of the Soviet Union, but with the fall of Moscow and Stalingrad the Head of the once Great Soviet Republic is doubt. Stalin flees to the Urals with the remains of his tattered Army in hopes to fight again another Day...

The War in Russia is over, end factor, the USSR could not establish a defensive front nor counter attack across the Don even with superior #s and supply. The Germans used the Russians own Terrain against them. 75% of the Russian Military is destroyed, but the economy remains functioning for now, now it's up to the West...

The Massive Axis Taskforce is quickly dispatched off New York, New York. An Italian Ship is sunk and contact is made with another German Battleship, soon the entire Axis Navy will meet it's doom or run and hide... Churchill has vowed for revenge in France, Now the long awaited Day has Arrived, quarter of a Million Brits land in France, and behind them is another Million Allied Soldiers. D-Day is upon us 1942! The Axis sit in their trenches hiding behind barbedwire and bombshelters, afraid to meet the uncoming Juggernaut tongue.gif

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New York, and no doubt New Jersey too!! Yipes :eek: , first it's the Martians and now it's the Huns! Oh, Liam, we're told the Huns are used to our bacteria so they won't just fall down dead like those stinky Martians so please protect us, I know I'll never be able to learn German, I can barely get by in English! :D

The best narration I've seen in years and a great unconventional game, the all time champ duking it out with our own rising U. S. star. :cool: smile.gif

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August 1942:

The waters around USA get more dangerous...Vittorio Venetto battleshipgroup lost in combat...time to set sail home...destroying the 2 US cruiser groups Tuscaloosa + Brooklyn during retreat.

Before the last axis forces leave America, New York gets burned down to the ground as a monument never to interfere into inner-european affairs...before the axis fleet and special forces leave US coastal waters, subs mine all ports...

Strategic victory can be reported back home: Main task fullfilled - US forces busy defending their home country and UK in Europe has to fight alone so far. First UK corps MIA near Paris smile.gif .

In Russia the last 4 cut off corps at Rostov and Caucasus get destroyed, all 3 cities in Caucasus conquered – the region firmly in Axis hands. Russia seems to run low on willing soldiers...2 rockets defend the frontline...one destroyed, the other in Gorky under heavy fire...German forces preparing assault against Urals...

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Strategic Command 2 game - not WaW smile.gif

@Rambo:

Yep, that was the purpose of this raid: all US forces are now concentrating on defending their own country and finding the axis fleet that brought such devastation and which is now hiding in the Atlantic...instead of supporting the war in Europe :D

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Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

This is bad, Buntas taking over the world. Sounds like a night in the Hostel.

Yeah I know, but those were Slovaks. I got a bank here named the Bank of Slovak, Pa has a lot of that Mixed Eastern European Stock.

The USA is contrary to Axis Propaganda never been stronger. In the exchanges at sea, the American NavyMen are ferried back to Friendly waters while the Axis at supply 1 and 2 are eaten by our Shark Infested Coastal Waters. The few fires that are set ablaze are quickly rendered ineffective, as the natural Rains this time of the year quell them and brave Yankee FireFighters!

"I'm a YankeeDoodleDandy!" Is sung throughout the Eastern Seaboard, down with National Socialism , one day they vow it will be a minority party in obscure European Nations!!!!

Regardless the Allies finally put full force into Normandy, US and UK troops are now seen on the scene and the first German Corps dies on French soil! Fire is about to reign down, Northern Russia and her Urals are still firmly Stalinist!

More Germans soldiers will have to die in this titanic struggle, and regardless of what the outcome may be, we expect the price of war so great they will never be as powerful again. A-Bombs will do them in one day on B-29s!!! Level EUROPE! If we cannot take the cake!

Long Live USA, those Veneto Vittorios are nothing but floating turds! :D

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Short transport distances for US body bags become more and more necessary :D ...US Battleshipgroup New York follows the city it had been named after and goes down in flames...same as Royal Oak. Except for Vittorio Veneto some time earlier, no total naval losses for the axis North American task force so far smile.gif .

The entire US/UK navy now seems to be between USA and Spain...all 4 carriers that were previously bombarding axis positions in France are unaccounted for as well, moving south to block the way to axis ports in Spain and Portugal....Unable to return home, the axis task fleet commander finally give orders to scatter and seek sanctuary in the carribean and Brazil where most of the ships will be detained till the end of the war...Graf Spee moves full speed towards the South Atlantic in order to sink merchant ships near Argentina...

In Russia allied losses had been extreme and loss ratio is nearly 5:1 in favour of Axis smile.gif :

Land losses so far:

Germany: 8 units (7 of them in Russia) + 8 minor units when Norway, Sweden and Finland got conquered

Italy: none

Russia: 34 units

USA: Eisenhower HQ

UK: 5 combat units and 23 minor ones

= Total losses of major nation combat units (without France):

8 german units vs 40 allied ones smile.gif

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German generals and admirals are highly trained and combat hardened now...this turn again no losses for Axis - neither on sea nor land – while the green british and russian recruits, trembling in their too wide uniforms go down like flies...frightened by the skeletons of their fallen comrades wherever they go...

Several more russian cities have fallen...Zhukov and his HQ staff get executed in front of the Ural mountains east of Kazan...several russian armies and corps destroyed in their trenches and fortifications...which are only death traps for these poor and tortured souls...

In the west no different picture: german soldiers taking pot shots on british forces camping and drinking tea in front of the axis fortification line...2 UK armies cease to exist after their commanding officers got shot by snipers when they took the morning salutes and their panicing men surrendered in face of german tank cannons appearing out of nowhere...

In the Bermuda triangle the last canadian cruiser fleet vanishes...allied sailors rumor about seamonsters and ghost ships snatching souls in those cursed waters...only italian submariners really know the truth about what happened there :D ...

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September 6, 1942:

German soldiers catch a large pile of stuffed turkeys from the next US camp outside Bordeaux...a never ending supply of fresh meat appears every turn along the Bordeaux-Paris defence system...resulting in reduced own rations delivered to the bunkers from behind: Axis forces get more and more experienced in hunting their food outside the walls and are now able to sustain self-sufficient by confiscating US and UK goods – another 2 allied armies and a corps eliminated without own losses.

In Russia Stalin gets desperate...heavily swearing and scourging his own men, he orders another all out attack....to take out one german paratrooper, Russia sacrifices 2 armies, a corps and its last engineer unit...another 2 russian cities conquered, the gates to Urals are open with no men standing in between any more...

Around Bermuda the crews of the italian fleets Roma and Pola have to abandon ships after half a dozen enemy fleets take them under fire...rescued by german and italian submarines....transporting them to the lonely tropical paradise they have earned themselves for their brave actions... :cool:

Meanwhile near Africa:

A trade caravan on its way towards Ivory Coast - exhausted from its journey - takes a rest not far from the ocean....suddenly they hear a loud shout from a little boy just marveling the large sea he never had seen before...

...on the water, out of the dazzling sun, strange silhouettes had appeared...when coming closer shaping into hundreds of shining metallic objects...the leader of the caravan soon recognizes what they are and starts to sing and dance around in exultation....

...not much later the news reaches the city of Cassablanca...port and docks get hastily prepared for the big day...with all man and woman contributing to the great purpose...

...every citizen from the youngest one till the old city fathers is standing at the pier....finally after all those waiting....the pride of the german navy appears on the horizon:

Bismark and Tirpitz both arrive back from their long and dangerous journey...and not only they return victoriously...the majority of the combined Axis fleet successfully evaded capture by the numerically far superior allied fleet...and so cruiser after cruiser and battleship after battleship receive a more and more pleasantly surprised welcome when they enter port, until Andrea Doria completes the nearly endless festive procession...Cassablanca never before had seen such a formidable fleet and large number of ships in its port...and is now proud to be the first city to harbor the heroes of the New York battle smile.gif .

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A german army in the middle between Bordeaux and Paris just enjoys the delicious turkey meal when it gets abruptly interrupted by a collapsing bunker ceiling and crushed to death...during the last clear summer turn in September of 1942, USA and UK send their entire forces on an all out offensive...in a last flimsy hope...

As soon as von Bock and Kleist receive the news, they can already smell the near victory and prepare the most likely last huge battle of this war....adjutants start rushing busily through the command bunkers, distributing orders to all units....

...during the last weeks, thousands of tanks had been secretely hidden in the forests near Bordeaux and Paris...waiting for the right time to lead the counterattack for the destruction of the enemy....and finally the day has come:

On September 20, 1942, tank division after tank division moves to the front....followed by over a dozen army and corps units...crushing every enemy standing in their way....at the end of the day 3 allied armies and 3 corps are destroyed....the UK and US forces on the continent crippled and nearly eradicated....

[ December 26, 2007, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

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Wow, what a crazy AAR. Terif, why aren't you in WaW yet? smile.gif

I'm always amazed at how much devastation Terif can bring in such a short period of time. I have yet to play you, but whenever you transition to WaW I would love to receive a sound thrashing just to see this first hand.

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The war is over now in September 1942 – celebrations all over the world after Brazil joined Axis, releasing the fleet anchoring there back into duty while italian sailors on their tropical islands join into the festivities a bit delayed after sleeping off their daily hangover... smile.gif

Total land losses:

Axis: 10 german units + 8 minor ones, no italian losses

Allies: 42 russian, 7 US, 10 UK + 23 minor ones

Loss ratio of major combat units (France not counting):

10 german vs 59 allied

High allied blood toll – for every killed axis unit, nearly 6 allied ones had to give their lives – Germany is proud of its soldiers for such an achievement, woman and children are happy not having to mourn about too many lost men smile.gif .

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Perhaps the only Victories for the Allies this particular game were at Sea, though at a massive cost, unprepared to launch a D-day and uncoordinated with Mr. Stalin this was a doomed Game indeed. 1 to 6 is very very dreadful, though Terif also took objectives with post haste all over Europe, France in '39, The Dontez at the very beginning of Barbarossa. On top of it, the Axis cleverly deployed their Navy to draw out my only real Ace in the hole, and that was that. I had to have free shipping lanes, distraction or not... And I never suspected that the Axis Navy would do anything but Screen their U-boats, losing the 2nd American HQ was bloody. Especially in US Ports!!!

It is very difficult to trump a player who is constantly pushing his bishop right over your King, you must be looking sideways, rearways, and every which other way that is a possible exploit with Terif he's a Mastery over the SC2 Chessboard and I think we are both opting to stay out of the WAW scene for now until we've fully Mastered the capability of SC2-Vanilla...

After the Opening of Barbarossa went so gleefully and I tried to send 6 tanks-2-3 armies-5-10 corps across a Frozen Don, the game was decided right then and there. You have to pick your battles and I must assuredly did not pick the right one, even out fuel, supplies and ammunition the Axis could hold and that's all they needed, I was praying for another turn of Winter and then I was going to run but Mud sunk in and so did Axis Supply..

Very interesting game

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You guys need to get with "The Flow" and embrace the improvement SC WaW is. Unlike Terif's original assessment, I believe WaW shows at least if not more flexibility for diverse campaigns.

I have had several good conflicts revolve around the Persian Gulf area/access and in the expanded Scandanavian region.

Sure...they don't eclipse the main regions, but if left ignored by either player there can be some substantial potential problems arise.

I think the expanded regions serves to dilute out the additional unit density to a greater degree than SC2, making for conflicts all over the SC WaW map.

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I'm still personally learning new offensives/strategies/arts in SC2 Vanilla SeaMonkey. I'd be more than happy to embrace the WAW package and the new Strategies, though I play more than SC so my energies are usually mixed up. It gets boring to wear out one title, and I'm glad that there is new and interesting tactics that await I can dive into at a later date. WAW will take another year or two to refine, as I haven't lost a SC2 vanilla game since Taojah's vaulted AirDrop on Berlin.. in a year except against the ChessMaster, I'd like to see the community rise much above my head so I can get headcracked by everyone smile.gif

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:

You guys need to get with "The Flow" and embrace the improvement SC WaW is. Unlike Terif's original assessment, I believe WaW shows at least if not more flexibility for diverse campaigns.

I have had several good conflicts revolve around the Persian Gulf area/access and in the expanded Scandanavian region.

Sure...they don't eclipse the main regions, but if left ignored by either player there can be some substantial potential problems arise.

I think the expanded regions serves to dilute out the additional unit density to a greater degree than SC2, making for conflicts all over the SC WaW map.

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@SeaMonkey:

Well, IMO SC2 and WaW have different areas where they are strong:

The strength of SC2 is Multiplayer on the strategic Fall Weiss map – extremely balanced with endless strategical possibilities.

WaW is better in the smaller operational scenarios where railroads, artillery, anti-tank, etc have their place and the right of existence. It is also better suited for singleplayer games with its improved AI.

Fall Weiss in WaW unfortunately very soon strategically comes to a dead end if you play it often enough as I already have done. Surely, between not so experienced players or when playing against a new player still everything is possible cause the enemy won´t punish you for your (wrong) choices. But between experienced players (and for sure if you would play against me... :D ) that try to win the war, every deviation before 1942 from the historical/optimal path will be heavily punished.

Also too many areas are now dead for combat with (among other things) the railway system in place, as for one of the two sides it is in each case just not reasonable to go there. So when the enemy knows what he does or has made the mistake to deviate already often enough, pretty much every game sooner or later follows the same pattern – between 2 equal opponents lastly decided by luck with weather, diving and research – which plays a much too large role for my taste in WaW compared to SC2 anyway. The war between 2 veteran players also usually resulting in a World War I type of trench warfare. Which is the main reason I migrated from WaW back to SC2 if I want to play multiplayer.

Also for multiplayer I prefer a game to end within a reasonable real-time frame...and WaW simply needs 2-3 times more time than SC2 if you play it right – and time is even more a problem in the larger scenarios (at least in TCP they are more or less impossible to play..).

In the end IMO all the fancy new units resulting from splitting up the original SC2 units into smaller pieces may be useful in the operational scenarios and there increase playability and fun, but in the strategical Fall Weiss scenario they are simply in the wrong place and mainly cause a lot of micromanagement (which is real-time consuming) and possible exploits.

Fall Weiss in SC2 in contrary, offers pretty much unlimited possible strategies and is extremely balanced where luck plays no role. Only the players actions decide who will win the war smile.gif .

Every strategy has its advantages and disadvantages, but the effects cancel each other out and are well balanced, so which one you choose and if you have now an advantage or disadvantage from the chosen ones in the end, only depends on the situation and what your opponent expects you to do...so never meet the enemies expectations and always surprise him with something new... smile.gif .

Luck plays no role as every event where luck is involved has much smaller consequences than in WaW and unlike WaW, in SC2 you always can (and should) adapt to the changed situations from random effects. So if you change your strategy/build program accordingly they will never be a real disadvantage for you. Lastly it is up to the players which way they prefer to go and which strategies they choose – concerning the goal to win the war they are all equal for itself. Only in context of time or situation and experiences from previous wars with the respective enemy leader it is decided which ones become preferable.

Even after hundreds of games which I have played, every game still unfolds differently... smile.gif in order to win the war it is necessary to change strategy every game or the enemy will sooner or later adapt smile.gif .

In other words:

In Multiplayer so far Fall Weiss in SC2 makes the most fun for me: easy and fast to play, endless possible strategies and only your own actions in context with the enemies actions decide the war – key word: perfect balance smile.gif .

The expansion WaW I use to play the new/smaller scenarios and against the AI – this is the playing field of the expansion and where it perfectly complements the main program SC2 smile.gif .

[ December 27, 2007, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

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Well I truly can't say I've played hundreds of games, so perhaps my perspective is indeed a bit narrow in retrospect. No doubt the game requires an additional time investment and I understand the implications for TCP play, but I've never played in that mode.

I guess my playing objectivity is different as I'm not really concerned with the time length to play the game to conclusion. What's important is playing. I play to win, but I usually only wish to marginalize a victory in the end, allowing a dominated opponent to slowly re-enter the game through my experimentation.

You know the old cliche', "its not if you win or lose, its how you play the game", and my games usually last for many months, ending in 1946 or 47. Just seems like more fun and after all, isn't that what games are for?

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Yep, the long games are usually the best ones and how you play and which strategy you use is what makes the fun – and here for me SC2 offers the most with a wide variety of strategical possibilities you can choose from, no micromanagement and an easy and fast game flow smile.gif .

For n0kn0k here a photo series of the Stalingrad battle where the russian superior numbers melted away just like the winter snow smile.gif :

P126L01.jpg

P126L02.jpg

P126L03.jpg

P126L04.jpg

P126L05.jpg

P126L06.jpg

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Terif has an artform of the shortest path to a destination, doesn't leave much room to breath. That is why a player must quickly adapt to his strategies and tactics or face doom overnight, I could take him into 1945 in a lot of games, but that's because my strategy was too snailish and inevitably he's waiting like on these screenshots for the moment when the the supply and offense favors him. Be nice if Russians had a WinterStrike Option on their units tongue.gif particularly here, as I couldn't make him pay across that bloody Don!

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:

Well I truly can't say I've played hundreds of games, so perhaps my perspective is indeed a bit narrow in retrospect. No doubt the game requires an additional time investment and I understand the implications for TCP play, but I've never played in that mode.

I guess my playing objectivity is different as I'm not really concerned with the time length to play the game to conclusion. What's important is playing. I play to win, but I usually only wish to marginalize a victory in the end, allowing a dominated opponent to slowly re-enter the game through my experimentation.

You know the old cliche', "its not if you win or lose, its how you play the game", and my games usually last for many months, ending in 1946 or 47. Just seems like more fun and after all, isn't that what games are for?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
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