hellraiser Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Why Panthers and T34/85 at lvl 5? Koenigstiger and JS3 would have been nice to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eikelhoofd Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Yeahs, JS3 owns (still remember it form close combat 3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Yes you are absolutely right Hellraiser. I saw this too and it makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Yes you are absolutely right Hellraiser. I saw this too and it makes no sense. However could I chose an all round model to have for all duties t-34 and panther would be the choice for it. [ April 20, 2006, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MullinsR Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 King Tiger was meant for destruction, had a 88 I think on it, but a crappy defunct engine, whereas the JS3 had a 120mm Gun[it was above a 100mm for sure] WOW! But not sure about movement and engine. King Tiger looks better imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMG42 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 the game portray your 'main battle tank' (even if the concept appears latter), and not really what is the heaviest puppy you developped, so its ok for me. What bother me more is the potency of level 5 tanks, as infantry defence don't increase against them if I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I think Hubert is 100% right in his decision, coz neither Königstiger nor IS3 where produced or used in numbers... just a few 100 Königstiger where produced, and they never saw major action except Ardennes Offensive, and most of them were abandoned due to technical difficulties. The Panther was the true Main Battle Tank... some 6000 where produced. Basically it is the same with IS3... it never saw real action in WW2. Of course T34/85 isn`t state of the art, but all others like KV85 and IS2 were not used in numbers.. for these reasons I think the current state is the best. When you play Königstigers in Computer games like Blitzkrieg RTS it is very good because it has no technical difficulties or runs out of fuel... but this is not realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Well 1500 Tiger I were produced but they made it to the lvl 4 icon OFC 1500 units won't qualify the Tiger I as a MBT (Mark IV is the true MBT and after that, Panther was slowly taking its place). But this is not the point. The tech is 'heavy tanks' so it is natural the higher the tech, the 'heavier' the units counter appearance pz 1 (lvl 0) pz3, pz 4, panther, tiger, tiger2 Anyway it's kinda moot now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Good point. Maybe the technology should be called "Advanced Tanks" and not Heavy Tanks.... On the other hand this is a stragetic game, and no single Tank group consist of 100% Tigers or Panthers... most bigger units had several different tanks in service. Basically one could say that the HT Level represent the "average weight" of a tank group... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Panzer IIs were the staple during France, but Germans had plenty of T38s and P3s, both very similar and one Neville Chamberlain gave him compliments to CzeckSlovakia. The P-4s were available not fitted with a decent turret gun till later mainly a Infantry Support tank. The Panthers, Tigers, Elephant Tanks(the true behemoth mostly a sitting turret), all the other you spoke of... not in great #s true What was the power of these tanks, well..... depending on the front they served and what type of position they were assualting. I think they all required Infantry, Support Trucks, Support Tanks, etc.. or they would be toast. A few suicidal infantrymen can kill a tank pretty easily with TNT, just hide out in the woods and attach to the Tanks ass as it goes up a hill. A slower tank is far more vulnerable..But FirePower, Armor, Speed, and numbers are what mattered later. Earlier tactics... Frogs had an excellent Tank, S35 far outclassed anything the Gerries had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 @ Liam: yeah, that`s true. I do remember my difficulties in toasting the S35 in Blitzkrieg.. but the froggies made a severe mistakes in organising their tanks: they didn`t use them as separate groups as the germans did (Panzerdivison), they attached small groups to the infantry units.. so they could be destroyed one by one. The Froggies had another monster similar the early KV series.... called Char B1 bis, but they only had few (but seems to me like HT Lev 3 at least). Reference: http://www.panzerlexikon.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Originally posted by Hyazinth von Strachwitz: @ Liam: yeah, that`s true. I do remember my difficulties in toasting the S35 in Blitzkrieg.. but the froggies made a severe mistakes in organising their tanks: they didn`t use them as separate groups as the germans did (Panzerdivison), they attached small groups to the infantry units.. so they could be destroyed one by one. The Froggies had another monster similar the early KV series.... called Char B1 bis, but they only had few (but seems to me like HT Lev 3 at least). Reference: http://www.panzerlexikon.de/ Yes, the Char1Bis was a Monster. Slow though... Had that been organized as an Armor fighting Unit, and put north of the maginot awaiting a pitch tank battle with Panzer IIs, those Panzer IIs would've never penetrated Char, Somua Armor. They only had 20 MM on a P2, completey ineffective vs such armor.. P2s were good anti-infantry weapons and fast...good to flank a weak armored vehicle, no good at killing other tanks... a minimum of a what 37mm? I believe in German guns... Standard on a p3 or t38 I remeber Blitzkrieg.. P2s are ubervulnerable, you can't even drive them with your hatch closed. P3s are soft armor there no german tank that stands up to an Allied one unless you're talking about a Renault or an A15. That or armored cars Best thing about a Panzer is getting there before the enemy knows you there and toasting his rearend. or his Face panel when he's taking off. The P3H was the only tank I didn't despise in early Blitzkrieg on the Axis side, and that was dwarfed in later versions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MullinsR Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 ^^^^^^^^^^ Your post makes me think of WW2 Online WAY too much, makes me think you play it The stuff you talk about applies to it, not being a smart ass (WW2 DUH MULLINS XD ) But its a live simulator, in 3d (FPS/RTS<-- Different, must play for years to try /Flight Sim/ Naval Sim / TANK SIM) Yeah, I drove full speed a 38t south of Brussels, down a hill and past some trees for cover, Circled around a churchhill and blew his slow punk self up Keep in mind its not a replacement for this great game, for its not the same type of game. Edit: To someones post above, I belive they did make a Unit full of King Tigers and Tigers for Battle of the Bulge. Im sure atleast one of the main spearheads had atleast a good tank division of those two, for I *think* I read on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 The doctrine difference between French (static defence) and Germany (mobility, aiming for fighting encirclement battles, close interarms coop) was in fact the reason the french lost so horribly. Their doctrine implied that tanks (HT included) were to be dispersed as infantry support whilst the blitzkrieg doctrine (Sir Basil Lidell Hart, Fuller, Eimannsberger) implied that tanks should be used as shock formations, delivering the punch in one spot, advancing and destroying HQs and arty/reserve troops - close air support assigned , infantry was to occupy the terrain). It is basically a very old military basic ideea - in the spot chosen, the attacker must achieve massive superiority to overrun the defenders. Germans won not because they had superiority in tanks' design over the allies (on the contrary, their tanks were inferior left aside for Mark 3 and 4 which were too few anyway) but because they employed them in the most effective manner. It was brains over brawl, simple as that. Another very important thing - the great attention paid by the germans to radio comm between tanks and military units in general and to the training the tank crews received. This two things made a huge difference in the early years of the russia campaign when, again underteched, the german tanks were able to perform amazingly. Later on , the blitzkrieg doctrine was applied with great succes by the Red Army to their 'teachers'. Ironic, eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapaho Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I just got lvl 5 tanks before end of 1941 - I had 6 tank groups, 5 in Russia and 1 in France. Way too powerful and ended the game before end of summer 1942. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Yes well if the Germans had their best tanks by 1941 it might have just been game over in Russia. Play over 50 games, see how many times it happens and see how expensive it is to repair when your opponent starts to ding them with AFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Originally posted by MullinsR: ^^^^^^^^^^ Your post makes me think of WW2 Online WAY too much, makes me think you play it The stuff you talk about applies to it, not being a smart ass (WW2 DUH MULLINS XD ) But its a live simulator, in 3d (FPS/RTS<-- Different, must play for years to try /Flight Sim/ Naval Sim / TANK SIM) Yeah, I drove full speed a 38t south of Brussels, down a hill and past some trees for cover, Circled around a churchhill and blew his slow punk self up Keep in mind its not a replacement for this great game, for its not the same type of game. Edit: To someones post above, I belive they did make a Unit full of King Tigers and Tigers for Battle of the Bulge. Im sure atleast one of the main spearheads had atleast a good tank division of those two, for I *think* I read on it. Hey! Reminds me of my infamous Night: "Liam's starts his Diesel Panzer III, slides off with his Squadron of 20 Tanks, couple infantry and 1 or 2 fighter spotters(not to many to give away anything) to take the town of Mountfacoun, Panzers in the rear brought up for Supply that the Allies must assume we do not have. We know that we cannot be spotted by any Hurricanes, or Spitfires along the way or the operation will be poop. Several Allied AntiTank Guns directed South will destroy our formation, the Forest Coverage isn't enough and our Armor will not resist even 1 poor Allied Marksmen. We stop a moment rest our overheating engines then make our way in. I spot a Char1 Bis on a bridge, at the front of the spearhead, 2 Somuas moving out to cover a frontal assualt they fear no axis armor, a spy has betrayed our formation. I take position, I ice the Char by placing 50 well placed shots on his soft points.... but my radiator has had it, the Somuas pound me but a buddy slips and engages is destroyed, 5-10-12 Axis tanks are butter...but our main thrust had made their objective, a Control point is captured, I'm stalled outside a Spawn Point. I start icing Allied units, 1-2-20......infantry being splattered all over their barracks by my Duel MGs. I catch several tanks attempting escape the Fortress before they can take position kill them before their crews are in place. That is it... That is a happy average day for an Axis tank... we abandon our busted up Panzer and it's refitted with a new radiator for another duel... and it's true purpose in that game and about correct in the real world too I assume. We take the town an hour later, I'm patted on the back with actually killing a char with a poor Marksmen at his helm with lucky shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MullinsR Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 That sounded good. Right now im trying to buy a Flight Control kit from Saitek so I can fly dive bombers/bombers/fighters in WW2 Online. Im in one of the leading Divisions of the Axis side when it comes to ground units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by MullinsR: That sounded good. Right now im trying to buy a Flight Control kit from Saitek so I can fly dive bombers/bombers/fighters in WW2 Online. Im in one of the leading Divisions of the Axis side when it comes to ground units. I tried flying a Bomber, it was a waste, I use a Saitek that cost 45 bucks, not enough! That was back when 1gig of Ram could run Aircraft in WW2online, now you need like 2 gigs at least. I ran JU-Stuka runs well initially.. After a few patches I often lost control though I managed to kill a few dozen tanks with the item. Also managed to avoid crashing quite a bit. Though very little success in the Fighters I always ran amuck lag, and crappy computer. I think I could be a mediocre pilot if not. I am a successful Tanker, not the best but Axis tankers we just serve the purpose. An accomplished Sniper served two or three squads (I had monsterous long vision, Pinched more 900-1100 yard kills than most back before they nerfed our Mauser and bloody breathing, I don't breath that HARD! to top it all off how can you kill a guy when his lag makes him invisible for 5 or 10 seconds? they have issues on that network but still fun and I guess I got plenty of kills the same way... about 1:1 in tanks 1:25 infantry I really liked to spawn into hell at midnight isn't that fun? but about 1:1 in inf in equal situation ) mostly was an independant for 3 or 4 years on and off never really achieved beyond Colonel, maybe Lt. Col edging on Col b4 th patch and got to serve with a few actual Field Marshalls, I don't see how they got those sort of kills? 5000 a month that's a career for me..Too bloodthirsty [ April 21, 2006, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Liam ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MullinsR Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Haha, I just started this year, but its a blast to me. 1 gig is running it sorta decent, mainly now just my video card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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