Brits Tactics

[Horncastle]

Searched for a few posts on this, but not sure all my questions are answered and anyway its nice to discuss things with people who are currently playing.

Had a few online games, current opponent disappeared, been playing as the brits. Mainly combined or unrestricted and I generally balance my force though probably take a little too much artillery. Heres my general force

1) 33% infantry a rifle company and a platoon

2) 25% Artillery 25pdr and motars as much as the points allow

3) Couple of cronwells VIII (95mm guns)

4) extra Piats to make 2 per platoon

5) couple of AT guns

6) scout car and maybe a wasp or MMG carrier

Scout out as much as possible with a car and 1 platoon. Launch my art on enemy troops if they make the first move then move in to take ground. Generally try to take ground which will draw out his armour then piat them or I generally hope to take out enemy tanks with the guns, use the cronwells to destroy buildings and inf, keep them well hidden for most the game.

Seems to work quite well, generally but I think only works if the enemy is quite bold and doesnt hold back too much and then counter attafcks

Problems I am facing which I could do with some feedback on

1) His armour staying back and never crossing my guns LOS. Then I have to rely on PIATS sneaking close and thats only if he finally commits tanks to close anti inf engagements. If I cant get good ground Im fecked as the PIATS have a low strike rate and need 2 turns maybe to get hits and my inf take casualties

2) My armour can only engage tanks really at close range, I cant use them too flexibly and need enemy inf to attack within my proteced LOS. Normally place them behind forest or buildings, not sure how I can use them more proactively as they can get easily killed.

3) Not sure if im putting my eggs in one basket with the AT guns. I like the 17pdr and the 6pdr, but sometimes they cant hit anything and they are the only things that i rely on to take out german armour really, once they are spotted and killed his tanks can run riot

4) The brit inf dont seem to be too great, nice and avg and can hold off an attack but without artillery I cannot see how I can use them to take well defended areas especially if there is armour about.

Heres some ideas anything extra to add much appreciated

I like the british 95mm gun on tanks and have great success supporting troops with it, but not sure how to use brit tanks though in general. My current idea is to use them in groups. Say a firefly, churchil and cronwell all in one bunch. Havent tried this yet but was thinking, move out the churchill draw the fire hopefully shrug off the hits then if timed right get the Firefy and cronwell to open up too. Ever been tried by anyone?

Brit troops. Think im on the right track with the piats as they are easy to use and nice and cheap. I have been using engineers to bolster attacks to, I rush them in if I can afford in half tracks or UNI carriers, so far not really got to grips with anyone to see how much damage they may cause, and flamers are very difficult to use. Should I take a rifle pltn instead?

Is it worth supporting a platoon with MGS? They dont move as fast but I have sometimes dropped them off with carriers next to a platoon. MMG carriers seem slightly more cost effective.

Should I do away with the AT guns? Playing QB you dont know the map so have to take a chance you will get a good line. Is it better to take say a fire fly or wolverine rather than a 6 or 17pdr.

How should you attack without relying on Artillery with the British? They cant seem to do damage at long range and can get ripped up in close combat, so need lots of support. Whats the best way of supplying it?

Any axis players like to tell me how you take on the Brits and what kinda nasty tricks you have been on the end of?

Any responses much appreciated

ta

[Firefly]

A couple of things I noticed that I'd have done differently, with the caveat that I'm no tactical genius.

The Cromwell 95 is an HE chucker, I'd have gone with the Cromwell IV and tried to use their speed to go for side/rear shots. Consider getting a Firefly or Challenger to keep them company for kitty killing, as the British did in real life.

25pdr ROF is not modelled well in CMBO, try a 4.2in/3in mortar spotter or even better on board 3in mortars with a company commander spotting for them. They have loads of ammo fro the price, but if you intend moving them very much get them carriers as they move really slowly.

You probably overdid the PIATs, the standard one per platoon is normally enough. The advantage of the PIATs is that they are harder to spot than bazookas or 'shrecks, because they are quieter and you may get off a couple of free shots before being spotted, they can also be used from inside buildings without causing the crew to become 'pinned' or setting the building alight.

British MGs are good, as much as that can be said for any MG in CMBO, MG Carriers are even better.

British infantry is mainly rifle armed so try and use them to engage the enemy at longish range, i.e. over 100 metres.

[Redwolf]

As for attacking without artillery - don't I would be surprised if the British ever attacked without artillery in the ETO, except for small raids.

Your message is unclear with regards to Quickbattles, you seem to mean Meeting Engagements, do you?

[Horncastle]

Im not sure about taking the 75mm 'wellies Im a bit timid of using armour vs armour and prefer to chew up inf with them, maybe Im not doing the brits justice I just expect them to get knocked out at the sight of a german kublewagon

Sorry for the Qb yes i mean meeting engagements, where you dont get to see the map and work out possible LOS for guns before hand so I can end up buggered if relying on ATs

Regarding art. I was wondering if it was a bit gamey to take loads, though I do find it invaluable. For instance in one 5000 point battle I took the following to support a rilfe Batt and a few coys

5.5x2

4.5

25pdrx2

4.2mx2

3m(comes with battalion)

Around I think 1000 points that is

[fridericus]

hi

it isnt gamey to use as many as possible FOs when playing allies.

only thatswhy they can kill something

*g*

[Tank Ace]

here's a good tactic-shoot to kill.

[Beta1]

Thank you for that amazing insight tank ace.

I agree with most of the coments so far. I think you have the right ideas but maybe the wrong tools. The 25pdr FO is pretty crap in BO. Doesnt have the blast or the ROF needed. Consider the 4.2" and 4.5" FOs instead. They are cheap and have good on target times. The 4.5" also packs quite a punch. In a recent game I took a 3", 2x4.2" and a 4.5" in a 2000 point battle. The three of the FOs acting to target one wood essentially destroyed a vet company of german infantry resulting in a surrender.

I almost always take a vet 6pdr AT - for the price its worth the gamble as it can KO pretty much anything with its T rounds. I think the 17pdr is overkill in a ME although probably worth it on defense. Its also worth taking something that can tow it.

I wouldnt bother with a scout car. Instead I normally have a daimler AC as its 40mm gun is useful against light armor (eg HTs, pumas, ACs etc)

Rather than cromwells use churchills the way you describe. While slower they are very very hard to kill from the front and the 95mm version can KO cats with its C rounds. If your going to buy cromwells use them only against infantry or run them for the flanks. If your worried about tigers/panthers get yourself a firefly.

Also even though the brit infantry is weak it tends to be around in large amounts. Dont be afraid to keep fighting is out until the germans run out of bullets - seriously if you can engage at 100-200m and keep a reserve of fresh troops you can often run the other guys ammo down and then attack with the reserve (after smashing him up with your FOs obviously!)

[flamingknives]

6pdrs and carrier are great for offensive use of towed AT guns. 17pdrs belong on tanks or defensive positions.

Humber is probably the best scout car, as it cowers from enemy armour (and hence doesn't die)

2" mortars vs. targets in trees are vital on the attack to keep them ducking until you overrun them

Earlier Cromwells are probably better, as the late models aren't really any more difficult to kill and the earlier ones are faster and cheaper.

75mm, 17pdr and 77mm armed tanks are quite capable of duelling with Mk4 and lighter - bigger than that and you need the heavier guns in ambush or flanking moves which allow the use of the 75mm again.

Thick front Churchills (later models) can shrug off anything smaller than the 75mm/L70 and can therefore really spoil an Axis players day.

Carriers should be used to scoot all your support weaponry about, but not under fire, as they provide not protection to the occupants.

Kangeroos are worth considering as they are APCs that require the attention of a tank gun to get rid of.

[Horncastle]

Cheers for the feedback guys.

The 25pdr Fo is a tad pricey, but I thought for the amount of rounds he got maybe he was worth it. How about using him for smoke is he better then? A quick question about smoke what is the relationship between size of the round and smoke i.e. how can you work out how long it will last, I would assume 300mm rocket smoke would last for ages?

Ill have a closer look at the Churchills and do away with the 17pdr in future. The extra armour would give me more flexibility to go forward a bit more.

One thing that is interesting is towing AT into position as it seems a bit tricky. I did try this once and thought I was in cover as he unlimbered and moved through some woods, but next turn I took a load of mortar fire and he was knocked out. I assume you need to use a spot of smoke to cover this but seems a bit of a waste with the time it takes to unlimber and move someone into position.

Ta

[Beta1]

The only use for the 25pdr I have seen is to deny an area to enemy infantry - the large ammo load out means you can keep dropping rounds in for weeks if needed.

But the rounds dont have the blast of the 4.2-4.5 or the ROF so its really more an spoiler than a killer.

on the other hand you can buy the on map 25pdr howitzer thats a much more useful weapon if LOS allows you to shell infantry directly.

[flamingknives]

One thing that is interesting is towing AT into position as it seems a bit tricky. I did try this once and thought I was in cover as he unlimbered and moved through some woods, but next turn I took a load of mortar fire and he was knocked out. I assume you need to use a spot of smoke to cover this but seems a bit of a waste with the time it takes to unlimber and move someone into position.

D'oh!

Forgot about the super-responsive, hyper-accurate CMBO arty.

You'll need to have a reverse slope position to set up in, or at least drop off in, and then move over a crest in woods so it remains unspotted. then wait until your opponent moves hit armour up to deal with your infantry.

Armed with T rounds, the 6pdr is fairly cheap and can deal with all but the heaviest kitties at a few hundred metres.

Ideally, towed ATGs are used to quickly set up a defensive position. Used in conjuction with lorried or armoured infantry, preferably in limited visibility, you can snatch the objective and turn it into an attack for your opponent, but without the usual points ratio.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by fridericus:

hi

it isnt gamey to use as many as possible FOs when playing allies.

only thatswhy they can kill something

*g*

Sounds entirely realistic to me.

The Allies *were* gamey with their artillery.