Can Human Players Influence Allied AI controlled players?

[Edwin P.]

Can the Axis affect the strategies of Allied AI controlled players?

Perhaps by telling them what their strategy should be but letting the AI execute it.

Example: Italy

Strategy: Defend Italy or Defend Western Europe or Conquer Egypt or Conquer Vichy France

[jon_j_rambo]

Dude, making a smart A.I. is a biotch with a complex game. It's not as simple as recurvsive algorithms in chess.

[Edwin P.]

Agreed.

Thats why I suggest that the Human player beable to tell the AI what to do from a limited number of available strategies. Essentially, you would tell the Italian AI that it could only move units within a radius of X tiles from Rome OR that it should not move its units into Specific Regions - ie Russia, that in turn would force it to concentrate its forces elsewhere.

[Edwin P.]

Example of a simple but effective implementation that gives the human player limited influence on the actions of AI controlled allies.

Human Russian Player, AI USA and AI UK player:

The Human Russian player can send a message to the Western Allies telling them:

1. Do not send lend lease support. This will cause the AI to cease lend lease support to Russia and it will spend the MPPs on preparing its own forces for an invasion.

2. Send more lend lease support. The AI may agree to or deny the request from the human player.

Human German Player, AI controlled Italy

The human German player can send a message to the AI controlled Italian player telling it:

1. Germany does not need the assistance of Italy to conquer Russia. This tells the Italian AI not to send Italian units into Russia and causes any Italian units in Russia to be withdrawn from Russia.

2. Prepare to Defend France from an Allied Invasion. This tells the Italian AI to focus its forces on the defense of France.

3. Germany will take care of the battle for Europe and Russia. This tells the Italian AI not to send any units into Europe or Russia, thus restricting its activities to the Mediterrean and North Africa.

As Blashy says below,a limited set of instructions for the AI would be much appreciated in a game with AI players. Thes instructions don't have to be complex, they would just tell the AI that it can't move its units into specific geographic areas or it would request more Lend Lease Assistance, and the AI would not always listen.

Of course, if you are a Human Russian Player, and another Player is the Human UK player, it would be interesting to see which player the AI USA listens to.

[ April 24, 2005, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Blashy]

Being able to do this little things would be a big help.

Germany suggesting Italy concentrate on taking the north of Africa.

Maybe have a list of 6-8 suggestions for each ally, you click one and until you change that, they will remain on that course, as long as it is possible of course.

[Edwin P.]

Blashy, I like the idea of a list of ideas, but what would they be?

Russia:

1. To USA: Do Not Send Me Lend Lease Aid

2. To USA: Send me more Lend Lease Aid

3. ?

4. ?

UK:

1. To USA: Send Me More Lend Lease Aid

2. To USA: Lets Invade France

3. To USA: Lets Invade Norway

4. To USA: Send Reinforcements to Egypt

5. To USA: Lets Protect the Convoy Routes

6. To USA: Lets Invade Spain

Germany:

1. To Italy: Keep your forces out of Russia

2. To Italy: Keep your forces out of Northern Europe

[jon_j_rambo]

Edward --- Honestly, I don't know how you could make a good A.I. for this game, it's simple, yet the strategy is complex. Play more TCP/IP or PBEM.

[Blashy]

I like the idea of poping open my laptop and being able to relax and play a game solo.

UK:

7- To USA, Invade Italy via Sicily.

8- To USA, Free North Africa.

Russia:

3- To USA, Free North Africa

4- Tu USA, Invade Italy via Sicily.

5- To UK, Concentrate on Air superiority

6- To UK, Invade Europe via Low Countries

7- To Allies, concentrate firepower on France

8- To Allies, concentrate firepower on Norway

Simple stuff like that.

[SeaMonkey]

Wait a minute....let me get this straight. You want to be able to tell the AI what kind of strategy to embark upon and then you want to play against something you can anticipate by your decision? Shouldn't there be a bit of randomization here? Edwin, I believe you asked for a certain randomization of AI strategies awhile back, "nes Pas"? The AI will be lame enough without knowing what general direction its going to take and we know it will be repetitive with its moves once the strategy category is chosen. IMO, this is a waste of HC's time and will be for us scenario designers to explore. That's why we'll get a great editor with scripting.

[Edwin P.]

A clarification,

In SC2 you can play as Russia and have an ally be AI controlled. I thought it would be interesting if you could request your AI controlled ally to follow a particular strategy, of course it could choose not to do so.

Example:

If Russia tells the USA AI that it does not need any Lend Lease support then the USA AI should stop sending it MPPs and use it to build up its own forces.

If Russia tells the USA AI that it needs MPPs, then the AI may accept or decline this request. Its, like bargaining with a human player on your side.

As a human player if the Russians asked my to stop sending them MPPs I would. If they asked me to send them more MPPS, I might decline. Especially if I have other priorities or my war readiness is above 80%.

[ April 25, 2005, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Lars]

Edwin want Casablanca Conferences.

Actually, I don't think something like that would be too difficult to code. If you want the Italians to go for Egypt instead of Greece, raise the point value of Egypt in whatever algorithm the AI uses currently.

Might be a lot of work to cover every option a guy could dream up though. For instance, it'd be nice if your AI Ally would give you a heads-up on what he's planning too. i.e. – "D-Day is launching in two turns, Russian Player, prepare Major Offensive in Support".

[SeaMonkey]

Ohhh, Ok I got it Edwin, you want to be able to passively direct your Allied AI partner. Good suggestion, but heck, just take control of your Allied counterpart, doesn't take that long to play an SC turn. Hmmm, well it used to not, may be different with SC2, we are going to have much more depth. Perhaps the scripting feature could handle this request.

[Blashy]

The idea Sea Monkay is to add more variety to the game.

Even though you suggest certain plans, the allied AI might do something else that makes you have to change some of your plans.

So having the AI control some of your allies might make the game harder sometimes. Certainly add some variety.

[Edwin P.]

In SC1 if you control all the Allies against the AI or all the Axis powers against the AI you can easily win.

As Blashy says having AI controlled Allies will make for a much more interesting game.

Imagine being the Western Allies and watching the Russian AI being pushed back to the brink of defeat. Or being the Germans and being forced to attack Russia without the support of Italian troops as the Italian AI has decided to adopt a purely defensive strategy.

If I could only add this feature for one country it would be for the USSR. There would be a tabbed Allied Communications Panel where the Human Russian player would see the preprogrammed requests he can send to his AI allies.

For Russia this would be rather simple:

01. To USA: President Roosevelt, we need lend lease support now!

----------USA AI may increase lead lease support to USSR

02. To USA: President Roosevelt, the USSR does not require any aid from Capitalists to fight the Axis.

----------USA AI stops Lend Lease support to Russia.

This provides a realtively simple way for the Human play to assist the AI in making a decision on how much lend lease support to send to Russia.

For Germany this tab would be equally simple when dealing with the Italians:

01. To Italy: The German High Commands orders you to keep your forces out of Eastern Europe.

-------- The AI would not send any units into Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary or Germany. Any Italian units in this area would be withdrawn.

02. To Italy: The German High Command orders you to keep your forces out of Europe and Russia. Germany will defend Europe.

-------- The Italian AI would not send any units into France, Germany, Low Countries, Denmark, Romania, Hungary, Russia, or Bulgaria. Any Italian units in these countries would be withdrawn.

These two rules effectively restrict the Italian AI's area of operations and forces it to concentrate its forces.

[ April 27, 2005, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[John C]

Actually, it is very common for the AI to have a few different broad strategy options in oreder to keep games different and provide some variability. Should the US go after Germany first as it did historically or should it pursue Japan more aggressively? Does Germany go through with Sealion or invade Russia? Making the AI unpredictable is important and that is typically accomplished to some degree by providing a few high level options for each nation to pursue. I could definitely see an option for allowing players to influence/select those options for minor allied countries instead of having them assigned randomly in order to allow true grand strategy within the alliance. Nice thought.