Diplo necessary for Hun/Rom/Bul if Spain is attacked?

[JJColorado]

Hi,

I saw Terif mention something on the board a week or two ago about diplo-ing the Balkan Axis minors if Vichy and Spain are attacked in 1940. Is there any reason that these countries won't join as normal in this situation? Why would diplo be needed?

Thanks

[TaoJah]

Roumania and Hungaria only join if Spain is at 40% or higher towards Axis. And no, being 100% after an invasion doesn't count !

So if you attacked Spain, you got to diplo those two countries into joining you.

Bulgaria will join, no matter what.

Worst case scenbario is that you put chits in Spain and the opponents gets a hit with HIS FRENCH CHITS ON SPAIN like happened to me. That means you just wasted 375 MPPs on diplo and alot of extra turns before the two join, making the MPP loss even harder.

[The K Man]

So lets say the allies get diplomatic success with Spain and knock him down to around 32%. Is it more cost effective to just diplo Hungary and Romania instead of Spain? (Figuring that it might cost more to do Spain than the others if you think the allies have more chits on Spain.) I guess it depends on how much you'd have to diplo Hungary and Romania. I suppose the allied player could offset those as well.

[TaoJah]

Apperently most players diplo Hungary and Romania. Untill now, I always diplo Spain, but in my last game the Allied got a hit on Spain with... FRANCE (!) which brought Spain down to a whoopin 9%... I don't know why the hits of France have a 31% influence, but apperently they do.

The change of this happening is of course very small (he had 3 chits in Spain with the UK and 1 with France, I had 3 with Germany) but if it happens, you basically loose ALOT. Not just the MPPs from Diplo Spain (you got to switch them from Spain to the Balkan), also the lost MPPs from Hungary & Roumania for x turns, where x depends on your luck.

I'd be surprised if those two countries will have joined me before Barbarossa.

[Bromley]

I'm still getting used to this, but it occurs to me that you might be better off placing two chits in Romania rather than one in Romania, one in Hungary.

Hungary will definitely join some time after Barbarossa:

Start:80% + France:(3%-5%) + Declaration on USSR:(7%-10%). So that's 90% minimum, at which point I believe the activation level rises each turn.

Romania will not necessarily join. It gets the same 10-15% increases, but starts at 75%. So it needs at least one diplo chit (7-10%) to guarantee >90%. By investing that second chit in Romania, you speed up the joining of Romania after Barbarossa, which as it has 50 MMP/turn and an air unit is good news.

What do you guys think? Or do you invest more than 150 MMPs in the Balkans?

[hellraiser]

because diplo was nerfed lately (averaging 7-9% per succesful hit) usually it takes a lot more turns to convince Spain to join Axis - sure with italian and german chits focused, Spain will most likely rise but at a very slower pace (ofc if UK countered) so you shouldn't be surprised if the major powers join and block with their own chits.

If you hope for uber hits 30%+, well it's your choice - but for a cautious player, now it is quite risky to spend cash on a potentially lost cause.

Indeed a lot of players diplo HU/RO - they start with very high activation levels towards axis and you don't need too much luck to get them joining you. Rarely you will ever see an allied player counter HU/RO - it doesn't make too much sense.

So Spain now is important for Axis only for the additional cash it provides, securing the Med area (by capturing the Rock, some nice XP gained by the attacking troops. Too bad for Axis - they lost those nice spanish units - ideal for garrison duties

[TaoJah]

Well, if you don't diplo Spain, when do you attack it ? Before or after Barbarossa ?

[Liam]

get Hungary and Romania in diplo and attack Spain in Summer of '40 best.. US readiness skyrockets but then it ensures you free troops for Barby

if your diplos fail, you will have to judge but I think after Barby is best or at the same time

Originally posted by TaoJah:

Well, if you don't diplo Spain, when do you attack it ? Before or after Barbarossa ?

[Bromley]

Gut feeling = before. No point in diverting resources that should be in Russia or the Middle East.

But the activation hit with the US is 16-30% (inc. Vichy declaration). What's that? Something like up to 50 MMP/turn for the US? Could be painful .

[Agamemnon]

Forget Diplo as the Axis, it's worthless. Don't waste MMP's on the Axis minors, if they won't join, blow them away. As the Axis use your MMP's for something you have a chance of getting. AS far as people saying you should diplo this or that, they are the same people who tell will you to max your diplo with England. At the same time you build 4 AF's, all your corps and armies. Max out your research. You are supposed to do all this buy May of 1941. All with the 62 MMP's Englands gets. They are morons. Tell them to show you a game turn where they have done this, You'll have a long wait, BS er's will never admit they are full of it. They just keep on BSing.

[Bromley]

The UK gets about double the MMPs that you mention and I doubt anyone has said to max out UK research if you're diploing.