Still looking for Japan and the Pacific...

[H.J. von Arnim]

Can anyone of you point me in the right direction or are the just not included in SC2 again ?

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

I would like an SC Pacific as well. Maybe HC will do one after he figures out the minutae of naval landings on small islands, and creates a naval game that won't look dumb.

I also hope he makes it just a Pacific game, and leaves it to stand alone on it own merits.

I personally think HC has the savvy to make a nice game. But after all I have seen of SC thus far, it's not designed to be a Pacific game, and likely would do no better than Risiing Sun did following Advanced Third Reich.

It too was a great game, used for the wrong setting.

The lesson learned, you had to take both games, and rebuild both of the from the bottom up if you wanted the global experience done right.

I would not be surprised though, if some still don't like the design.

[KDG]

Expect to see a mod that will have the pacific in it.

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

Any mod that is just SC ala Pacific with small islands, yet not properly designed for that theatre, will of course simply be a hand made mistake though.

[J P Wagner]

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1:

Any mod that is just SC ala Pacific with small islands, yet not properly designed for that theatre, will of course simply be a hand made mistake though.

And that has been my point, in a few post around here, regarding what exactly this editor can and cannot do...looking forward to the day when more info about the editor is released...

[Edwin P.]

The biggest problem with doing a pacfic mod is recreating the amphibious invasions, as currently in SC2 a unit can land in a hex if it is occupied. Thus naval and air units have to destroy it first.

For a pacific campaign to work HC would have to add the ability for a land unit to attack from offshore and to advance after combat if the defending unit was destroyed. If the defending unit was not destroyed then the attacking transport would take damage. There is also the problem related to the fact that only one fleet can be in Pearl harbor at a time.

Note: the new amphibous units can move adjacent to a costal hex and land in the same turn, if that hex is not occupied.

[H.J. von Arnim]

Well, then I agree with Les:

Skip the USA if there is no Japan and Pacific !

[Blashy]

Originally posted by H.J. von Arnim:

Well, then I agree with Les:

Skip the USA if there is no Japan and Pacific !

Then just make a map without North America with the editor if you don't like it.

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

The game engine (if I have the term properly employed) to do Pacific, would likely require Hubert to take a totally different look at the situtation.

Ok here is my current thought process.

Currently the scale in SC is a corps or army. Guess what people, we never landed whole corps or armies ANYWHERE in the Pacific.

Your mods will be jokes if you think "oh just jury rig a few icons mangle a few maps and presto I got the game in the Pacific".

Correction, you will have a game with a Pacific looking map that only a nut will think has any connection with the Pacific.

The combat model will be totally wrong, and all you will have done is maybe draw a pretty map that might impress your highschool teacher.

If you want to impress us, it's going to cost you more than just some time with an editor.

I think we are all agreed, the Pacific was basically a fight between naval task forces searching each other out, naval air combat, amphibious landings made by small groups of highly motivated men fighting under extremely harsh conditions of constricted ground and horrendous losses.

In a few spots the war in the Pacific took place on reasonable amounts of land. But these larger land masses can't automatically be counted on to automatically let the game continue to use original SC European concept forces just because "its all you got".

The fighting in Burma did not involve large mass armies or tank groups.

My notion is to see if HC is interested in making a scaled up game of SC for the Pacific. By scaled up, I mean providing maps with a totally different ground scale.

On a current SC map, the island of Tarawa for instance will be occupied by a Japanese unit, it would be the only hex like with Malta, and good luck taking it.

You show up with the US naval air, pound it a few times, the IJN with it's many surface vessels shows up, swats your expensive carriers and you get to lose yet again.

We need a map that allows Tarawa to be a multi hex representation of the ground. We need small scale units such that it isn't some idiotic notional Marine corps all in one spot silliness.

I can assure you, that's what I will require.

Otherwise, count me out.

[Night]

You could just scale things up yourself ya know...

So pearl harbor can only hold 1 ship since only 1 ship can fit in a port, so put 2 or 3 ports right next to each other on the island.

Islands can be made with more then 1 hex, so the large ones like the Phillipenes can be many (12-15) hexs and smaller ones like Tarawa can be 2.

The pacific is a very interesting fight. If anyone has ever played Civ3 Conquests it has a cool little pacific scenario.

I also don't see the big deal with making a corps in game represent a divison or even smaller. All it is really is an icon, it can mean whatever we want it to mean. Hell I can play a game saying every corps is really just the one man it shows and they fight hand to hand til everyone loses his health!

It's very possible to make a succesful mod if you ask me, esp. when you consider the fighting in China etc. and how the diplomatic situation was at the time. Very cool stuff.

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

Actually, unless I am greatly mistaken (not impossible eh) the problem is while yes, you can just call the icon whatever you want it to be (even to redrawing it in nice new pictures), it won't alter the fact the software was built around certain assumptions.

One of those is the game uses corps and armies.

And while you can change the icon or relabel it, it remains what the software thinks it is, a corps or an army.

And thus you will only end up with corps/armies that look like divisions or regiments, but having the comba dynamics of a corps or an army.

If it sounds like a duck eh.

And placing 3 ports besides each other, does not make a single location capacity increase, it just allows you to call three separate locations one location.

If the icons mean nothing, then why are we even concerned about realism in the first place. Its just checkers with neat pictures.

[KDG]

And while you can change the icon or relabel it, it remains what the software thinks it is, a corps or an army.

Actually I believe the software sees each unit as a set of statistics from attacking to defending, movement, etc. Thus you could make a corps more powerful than a tank, if you wanted, and the program would respond accordingly(we won't know this until we try it out).

Why not just add an additional tile of land(or 2) to the smallest Island. This would allow you to knock down the unit with ships/carriers, then land and attack, destroying the unit.

You can also go with a map that is 25 miles per tile, thus having 4 times as many tiles as one that is the standard 50 miles. You could then double the movement points for all units to account for this. Thus the smallest Island might encompass 4 tiles, which is easily invadable. Adjustments to unit stats/total units might also be neccessary.

One way or another, I think it can be done to the satisfaction of many. If not, still might be fun trying.

[Shaka of Carthage]

Good for you Les.

You're absolutely correct that just changing the scale and renaming the icons will not give us the Pacific theater.

[J P Wagner]

We are going down the same path that a few other threads have gone, namely what in fact this editor can do and the wish lists that accompany the topic....I know the game is quite a way off, but there seems to be as much anticipation for the editor as the game itself...I think I'll put these visions of scenario editing, which are dancing around in my mind, on hiatus for awhile until we have some more concrete information on the editor...

[KDG]

You're absolutely correct that just changing the scale and renaming the icons will not give us the Pacific theater.

No it wouldn't, but changing attack and defense numbers, movement, strength, tech, etc, just might. Do not dash the hope of the young and brave, those daring ones that want to mod....

[Night]

Yea you guys are crazy