Need tips for early-war Soviet light armour - worth using?

[Drawde]

I'm a relative newcomer to Combat Mission - I bought CMBO earlier this year, when it came out in the UK, and bought

CM2 last week - so I'm not exactly the most skilled player. However I've had absolutely no success using early-war Soviet light

armour (BT-5/7, T-60, BA-10, etc.) effectively, and would like to know whether it's just that I'm not using them in the right way, or whether I should

stick to T-34s, KV-1s etc!

Their armour is so thin that unless they're very lucky -any- Axis cannon will penetrate them, so they usually die in a few hits.

The 20mm cannon (on the Pz.II etc.) is the worst, as it has a very rapid firing rate and an A.P. of 25mm, more than most Soviet light units - so it can take out most of them with a single burst.

I've tried using them as fast attack units, to flank the enemy - placing them to the side of my main attack, in cover, then sending

them out at high speed when my main attack is underway, in the hope of attacking enemy armour from the side. However they inevitably get knocked out before they can fire more than a few shots, even

when infantry and heavier units are engaging the enemy. Their speed doesn't seem to help them much.

I've tried using them as "motorised AT guns", placing them behind my main force to provide extra firepower whilst not being in front-line

combat themselves, however the AI will inevitably spot them and pick them off, usually in preference to firing at the heavier units.

I've found that the tankettes and other MG-armed light armour units are handy for supporting infantry, or protecting heavy armour from

infantry (providing you keep them well out of the way when any enemy armour is near, or they'll get picked off as mentioned before). However

the cannon-armed ones seem to be of little use.

Is this just my lack of tactical skill in using them, or did they meet a similar fate in real life?

I played a quick battle - an assault on a small town - as the Italians today and found that their light tanks (one with 45mm cannon, another with a rapid-fire 20mm)

are surprisingly effective. I was fighting a Soviet AI player, with a computer-selected assortment of units fairly close to the selections

I've tried playing with as the Soviets - a couple of T-34s, 4 or so T-60s, and a mix of other light armour, plus some infantry. My force was 5-6 each of both

types of light tank, plus 4 MG carriers, and a reasonably-sized infantry force. I expected my tanks to be decimated, however to my surprise

the armoured force defeated the Russians with only 2 losses (one of which was to tank-hunter infantry near the end of the battle) plus 1 immobilised. Most

of the enemy shells ricocheted off their thicker front armour. The infantry force only engaged the enemy in the last few turns.

Was I just lucky, or have others found the Italian tanks to be similarly effective against enemy light armour? I'd imagine that any substantial force

of heavies like T-34s would give them trouble, though.

[Big Ron]

Try the shoot and scoot tactic. Pop them out of a valley or from behind a building/ wood etc. Fire en masse at your target. Then immediately back away into cover. Your opponent shouldn't have time to target you and if you're using a platoon (say 4 or 5 light tanks) you should get a hit or two. Then head off and find another position to employ the same tactic.

[MikeyD]

There's two ways someone could view this game, first is a historical sim, and second as an objective-oriented game. Played as a historical sim you'd of course use Russian light tanks because Russian light tanks were used in real life! You'd also play with reduced forces and depleted ammo in order to further boost the historical accuracy.

But if your goal is to procure the max firepower to win the battle (and that's how a lot of people play) it hard to argue against all KV-1s. Or alternately, you could spend all your points on artillery and keep a single infantry squad in reserve to march to the victory flags over the resulting lunar landscape!

There's about as many ways to purchase units as there are personality types playing the game.

[Dirtweasle]

I am currently getting slapped around in a QB with early sov light tanks and cavalry troops in a PBEM meeting engagement. Early war sov light tanks are pretty awful, and the cav squads lack firepower. Just the way things were back then. In this PBEM game I also am doing a poor job, so it's a real mess. My next PBEM I am setting up will be later war equipment. The early sov stuff is just not on a par with the German equivalents in my opinion.

[Nippy]

The early sov stuff is just not on a par with the German equivalents in my opinion.

The Only Early war Soviet tanks you can use with any real effectiveness are the KV series, T-34 Series (watch that turret!), and the T-26 "Erka-whatever" version with the 50mm front armor. Everything else dies real good, real quick.

Oh, and I just love the 180 second command delays.

[Gaylord Focker]

I like the light tanks.

[Agua]

Use shoot & scoot to fire from hull down positions, from behind buildings, woods. If you have a pretty good idea where the german afv is going to be located at the time your Russian beer cans execute the "shoot" portion of the maneuver, narrow cover armour arcs will help speed up their target acquisition. If you're stuck with a lot of crappy conscript crews, I don't believe cover armour is available. Also, try using any ATRs available to you to break up groups of german AFVs so as to enable your Ruskies to gang up on targets one at a time, rather than firing at an entire group of German tanks. Conscript crews are just going to plain suck for you though as they panic and break even when be fired upon by weapons that are unlikely to cause penetration.

[Dirtweasle]

I pretty much screwed this game up from the start by mistaking what my unit selection was capable of doing. I'm not complaining, other than over my own foolsihnes. All the suggestions about shoot and scoot, banging away with AT rifles, etc. are good valid things to do. Unfortunatly at this point... my opitions are limited shall we say?

[Chad Harrison]

You just need alot of them if coming in on the front. Or, you can be very effective with flank shots. You just have to assume that one hit and they are gone. So dont give them that one shot

Chad

[Redwolf]

So far I overran my opponent everytime I used a 5-pack of BT-7 in a small game.

Granted, they had tanks I couldn't penetrate, but it didn't really matter. What matters is that the high speed of the BTs make me hurt and supress his units at will on a medium-hill, medium-trees map without any hope for the lame (as in slow) German armor. In addition to that, the new armor penetration model makes you survive a penetration reasonably often, especially from the 20mm guns.

I totally love the tankettes. If I find a way to get them to the enemy rear they usully cause substancial damage to mortars and spotters. The opponent can choose to kill them at any time, but to do so he has to reveal a gun or he has to divert a tank. And they are so cheap that a loss doesn't really matter. Or just drive them right off the enemy map edge when things go hot. My opponents are lucky that the tankettes cannot carry tank hunter or SMG teams

Oh, and there is an accessor you need for this game style: sharpshooters or light mortars.