WEAPON42 Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 What tank is that being portrayed in SPR that blows the american sniper out of the tower? Is it supposed to be a wespe? And why are'nt german 37mm at guns portryed in CMBO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 I think it was a Stug or a Marder, but it has been a while. The elevation on that gun was a bit high for reality, IMHO. The 37mm ATG is in CMBO, but not the german one. US Airborne has it in June of 44. The german one was phased out pretty rapidly because it bordered on useless against T34s. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEAPON42 Posted July 7, 2002 Author Share Posted July 7, 2002 I guess the german 37mm atg will be available for early russian battles then in CMBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tools4fools Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 Originally posted by WEAPON42: I guess the german 37mm atg will be available for early russian battles then in CMBB.I would bet on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 I'm also thought it was Marder. I remember an open top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 Originally posted by wwb_99: The german one [37mm ATG] was phased out pretty rapidly because it bordered on useless against T34s.The Germans tried to extend the life of the weapon by creating a huge shaped charge round for it. It was mounted on the end of steel rod that loaded into the barrel from the muzzle and was propelled by a blank round. It didn't have much range and so wasn't terribly useful, but at the time was probably better than nothing. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liebchen Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 I, too, recall an open top, watching the crew cranking the gun up toward the tower. It's been a while, though. A Wespe was a SP Arty unit and would have the elevation to hit that tower. The alternative (a Marder) would never have been able to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Goetz Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 The open topped vehicles in "SPR" are Marders, Marder IIIs if I remember correctly. While it would be extremely unlikely to find Marders serving alongside Tigers in actual combat, for the movie the Marders have the virtue of being available. While the "Tigers" in "SPR" are rebuilt T-34s, the Marders are probably authentic. The Marder, you will recall, was based on the Pz 38t chasis, one of two the Germans got from the Czechs after absorbing their country. While the 38t did not remain a front line vehicle for long, (retired after 1941, I believe) the chasis served as a basis for a variety of sp guns, including various Marder marks and the Hetzer. The key to identifying the 38t variants is the extremely large road wheels, which, in proportion to the size of the vehicle, are the largest used on any German armored vehicle. There was a Pz II based version of the Marder as well, but it had the Pz II small wheel suspension. Considerable Czech built equipment was available after the war. The Czechs had had a substantial and advanced pre-war armaments industry, which greatly benefitted the Germans when they took over the country. Czech built versions of the Me 109 fighter (along with, for ironic purposes, late model Spitfires) equipped the early Israeli air force. And various combat versions of the 38t Czech chasis are about the only functional tracked German AFVs still tooling around. I remember seeing a Hetzer with a WWII reenactment group a number of years ago. As for having the angle to hit a church bell tower, I think there would be a lot of variables, including range and elevation of the firing platform, but I agree that under most conditions, an sp at gun like a Marder probably wouldn't have the gun elevation to hit a target that high while actually in the town. For that matter, I don't think most tanks could do so either. Most direct fire crew served weapons (exclusive of AAA, of course) wouldn't have the elevation capacity to engage a target like that from close range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Edited cause I'm in a great mood. [ July 07, 2002, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnault Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 The vehicle was an open topped vehicle. Not closed. Clean your lens michael. There were some articles in a few armor magazines explaining how they built two marders. One was destroyed in making the movie. There also was pictures in some of the articles in the making of the Marders. Who ever said the Tiger I was a modified T-34 is correct. By the way the town they fought in in SPR was built on an old RAF airfield from WW II. i am sorry but I can" remember the names of the mags with the marder articles. Also in SPR the SS Division they fought in the film was "Das Reich" which is historically incorrect as they were a lot farther south and not involved in combat with the Americans at the time. Gry Havoc! And let slip the dogs of war! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Ugh. [ July 07, 2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Bah, just looked again, it does appear to be a Marder with everyone ducked down. [ July 07, 2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggDogg Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Guys, Michael, & Agnault, I would bet a six pack of Guinness pints on this. If my memory is correct, the "tank" (the vehicle was not open topped) that whacked Private Jackson was one of the Tigers. This was the second Tiger, I suspect. The first Tiger had previously been knocked out. Additionally, the tank fired at Jackson over its side. This would be a most difficult shot for a Marder. Also, the upward angle of that tank's gun did seem a bit extreme however. :eek: Further, my understanding is that Spielberg used a mocked up T34 to represent the Tiger. OK, who gets the six pack of Guinness Pints? Someone pull out the Saving Private Ryan DVD. Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by PiggDogg: Guys, Michael, & Agnault, I would bet a six pack of Guinness pints on this. If my memory is correct, the "tank" (the vehicle was not open topped) that whacked Private Jackson was one of the Tigers. This was the second Tiger, I suspect. The first Tiger had previously been knocked out. Additionally, the tank fired at Jackson over its side. This would be a most difficult shot for a Marder. Also, the upward angle of that tank's gun did seem a bit extreme however. :eek: Further, my understanding is that Spielberg used a mocked up T34 to represent the Tiger. OK, who gets the six pack of Guinness Pints? Someone pull out the Saving Private Ryan DVD. Cheers, Richard Rest assured Richard, it was the mocked up "Marder" which took the shot to kill the sniper/sharpshooter call him what you will. The Tiger was the one that fired the deliberate shot at the building alongside "The Alamo" causing bricks, dust and mortar to shower down on our hero's basically knocking them senseless. One of the few smart moves made by the German forces in their attack on the town. So, do you want my postal address here in Oz so you know where to send the Guinness? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webs Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Czech built versions of the Me 109 fighter (along with, for ironic purposes, late model Spitfires) equipped the early Israeli air force.And for more info on that, check out my http://www.101squadron.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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