Infantry Movement

[Canadian Insurgent]

I have recently downloaded the CM demo, which subsequently led to purchasing the game itself. I'm still getting a handle on the tactics, and in the process of playing the Chance Encounter scenario, I was struck by a little conundrum.

Using a company of US infantry which arrived as reinforcements, I flanked around a German position on the wooded ridge on the left. As they advanced upon the rear of the German infantry which was starting to fall apart under the base of fire provided by the Shermans and two other rifle platoons, one squad with a Move order happened to stumble across a VG squad cowering with fear. To my utter surprise, the US riflemen strolled by them non-chalantly while the Germans opened fire. The US troops returned fire, maintaining their easy strolling pace towards their intended destination. Needless to say, at such a close range, nearly the entire squad was wiped out by the VGs automatic weapons.

So, my questions are these:

a) Why didn't the squad immediately drop down and return fire (or at the very least seek cover) when the Germans opened fire?

Is there a way to have a squad or vehicle show a little more personal initiative in the course of a turn?

c) In retrospect, I wouldn't use the Move order again in that sort of situation. But the Crawl command seemed a little silly. When in close terrain with a low LOS, it seemed to me that crawling around on the ground was a good way not to see the enemy until it was too late, and furthermore, a good way to get alot of soldiers bayonetted. Apparently my assumptions were incorrect. Does CM model hand-to-hand combat, or do squads simply blaze away at each other toe-to-toe?

d) What is the best way to advance infantry in close terrain? Why?

Other than that one incident, the scenario went very well for me. Most of the casualties I incurred were a result of that entire platoon being wiped out. Live and learn, I guess (or not as the case may be for that platoon)

I look forward to hearing your esteemed opinions on this matter.

[Michael Dorosh]

Try the Sneak command when in proximity to enemy troops.

[Redwolf]

"Move" is more like "march", don't do it in front of enemy positions. As Michael said, you want sneak, or run.

More infantry movement examples:

http://thforums.com/CMBO/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=31

[Guest PondScum]

Originally posted by Canadian Insurgent:

a) Why didn't the squad immediately drop down and return fire (or at the very least seek cover) when the Germans opened fire?

Because they had good morale at the time, and hence were bravely carrying out your order to the detriment of themselves. Good morale can be a double-edged sword, as you found. A squad that already had poor morale (say, one that was Cautious due to previous incoming fire) would have disobeyed your orders and taken cover much sooner.

Is there a way to have a squad or vehicle show a little more personal initiative in the course of a turn?

Plot more waypoints! Each waypoint is effectively a new order. Per the manual, it takes a lot less incoming fire for a squad to ignore a new order, than it does for it to disobey an order that it is currently halfway through executing. So if you divide up a single move order into eight shorts segments, that gives your squad eight chances to re-evaluate what it's doing, and decide whether now is a good time to take cover, return fire, and ignore the rest of your orders for that turn. If you just have one long move segments, the squad will blindly follow it until its losses get so bad that it breaks and runs.

[ June 11, 2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: PondScum ]

[xerxes]

If in heavy cover and enemy contact is expected you really need to sneak. Sneak is a little misnamed, it's more like "advance cautiously, and open fire on anything you see". A "sneaking" piat will gleefully open fire on an afv at 100+ meters. Which is often not good. Crawl is more like sneak then sneak.

[Holien]

Bloody hell I am still learning...

Thxs for that Pond Scum...

Every day I get better and better..

H

[YankeeDog]

A little addition to the above:

The one problem with "Sneaking to Contact" is that it's rather slow - Sneaking troops move a lot more slowly than moving troops.

If I want my troops to move somewhat faster then sneak, but I want them to stop and return fire if they make contact, I'll plot lots of waypoints (as suggested above), but I'll also alternate longer (about 10-20m long) move orders with very short (1-5m long) sneak orders. That way, if a unit gets fired upon while moving, it won't be very far to the next 'sneak' order, at which point it will stop and return fire.

This allows the unit to travel almost as fast as a move command, but still gives almost as good unit self-preservation as sneak.

If I need to move even faster, but still drop to cover and return fire if contact is made, I will alternate 'run' waypoints with 'sneak' waypoints. I don't do this very often, though - "running to contact", even with sneak orders alternating, is rarely a good idea.

I didn't make up the above ideas myself - I got them from somewhere here on the forum. I don't remember who originally posted them, though.

Cheers,

YD

[Canadian Insurgent]

Using multiple waypoints is a good aspect of the game to consider. I had been pretty much using play by play movement orders. I can appreciate why multiple waypoints might better help a squad; if a section leader has a better idea of what he's doing and where he's going, he's going to be much better prepared.

In regards to sneaking and crawling, my concern is exhausting the infantry long before it makes contact with the enemy. If you crawl, sneak, and run everywhere, aren't your units going to become winded rather quickly? Is this a valid concern? To what degree does fatigue play a part in decreasing a unit's morale, firepower, and speed?

[ryddle]

Another advantage of using multiple way-points is that you won't have the command delay that you would have if you issued orders each turn. As well, if your troops were out of HQ command range or have changed status (Cautious, or whatever), the delay can be quite lengthly.

Another thing you can do with multiple way-points is, in a subsequent turn, select the existing way-point and move it a bit. This allows you to fine tune a portion of the path without having to issue new orders (and suffer the subsequent delay.) Any of these waypoints can be selected and the orders changed. i.e. turn a sneak to a run

fwiw,

-R

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Canadian Insurgent:

If you crawl, sneak, and run everywhere, aren't your units going to become winded rather quickly?

Crawling and running will tire your units very quickly. Running them through anything but flat, open terrain will tire them VERY quickly.

Sneaking does not appreciably tire your units faster than moving, so far as I know, but it's one of the things they do less well if they are tired.

Is this a valid concern? To what degree does fatigue play a part in decreasing a unit's morale, firepower, and speed?

It's a very valid concern. I never willingly allow my units to get below the "Ready" state. I will run them from cover to cover, but rarely more than a hundred meters. But then I have them stop for at least half a turn for a breather. Additional to the list of effects you note, tired units are less alert: they do not spot as well.

Michael