KursruK Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 When defending, you design your whole set up based on HQ command range. Why is it that during setup the command range is a little longer than once you hit "go"? Has anyone else had this problem where they set everything up, with PERFECT friggin command range lines, only to find that once they hit "go" one or more squads are registered as out of range? This happens to me all the damn time. What am I doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 The foxholes make LOS shorter, hence squads at the edge of LOS suddenly because out of LOS which can make them out of command. Because in setup the command range is computed without foxholes. So don't use foxholes I would rate that as a bug worth reporting, but then I didn't have much luck with my last bug reports. Any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KursruK Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 Redwolf, if what you say is true, and based on loads a repeated experiences with this, then yes . . . that is bug worth reporting. It's really annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I've seen it happen often as well. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KursruK Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 I suppose all people do is come in here and b*tch and moan about things, so no one will address this. But this could easily be fixed in the next patch yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I you report it, maybe. I certainly won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: I you report it, maybe. I certainly won't.Oh for petesake. I'll do it, manly man that I am, (or is it just that my reputation couldn 't be any worse?). What exactly is required here, just to post something called "BUG DAMMIT" on the main forum, or is there some formal kind of bug reporting form thingie somewhere...? Sir, command me, and thy will be done, Sir! Eden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Well, obviously it would be strange if I gave recommendations, so interpret this from your point of view. Bug reports by mail are likely to be ignored (I mailed the split-sqaud-sencond-half-counts-as-dead thing several times long before CMBB was released). If you post on the forum, you must have savegames. If Steve runs them, then make absolutely sure he runs them the way you intended them for being run and that he doesn't change orders for own experimentation and then posts he can't see what you are seeing. If bozos join your side, then shut them down by all means neccessary and distance yourself from them violently. Otherwise your bug report will be dismissed as brought forward by a bunch of bozos. Do not let the thread drift. For example, somebody might take the oppportunity of this foxhole thread to bring forward the large difference between foxholes and trenches or the low effect of foxholes in open ground. Make these people go away into their own thread, if needed you can open that new thread yourself. Be persistent. There is a tendency to declare whatever CMBB does to be right (for a game which is out for 10 weeks and has been seen one patch...). There might be a bogus explanation like "this is realistic, when they start digging the foxholes they see the commander and when finished they discover they can't anymore". Be strong, be safe. Don't mention my name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 It can actually be a feature, not a bug. It's damn hard for CO to give commands to troops in trenches and foxholes without LOS, especially if they are not peeking out . Even if you know where they are, it's almost impossible to give commands without shouting or small radios. Problem can be avoided by having tighter setup and avoiding extreme ranges for command. But it's worth reporting (even though minor), since game should give consideration to command similar way in both setup and resolution phase. Cheers, M.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 See what I mean? Even if you turn this bug into a feature, it would be a misfeature. There is no way that a real platoon would be so stupid to establish itself in foxholes, then discover that they are accidentially out of contact with the HQ for the same weather conditions, and then stay in these foxholes or don't cut some brushes in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I agree that this should be looked into, if possible. There ought not be any difference between setup and play, i.e. you shouldn't have to guess whether your dug-in (or not) units will still be in command once you hit "Go." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: Well, obviously it would be strange if I gave recommendations, so interpret this from your point of view.Au contraire, mon frere, je pense que tu sois tres bien... qualified! LOL! Your post here really belongs in the FAQ- redwolf's tactics for bug reporting!! If you post on the forum, you must have savegames.I've never seen it, but then I've never looked nor have I tried stretching my guys out to the limits... except for mortars; I definitely stretch mortars out, frequently... does it happen to HQ/mortar links as well...? At any rate, I'll look for this next game, try to reproduce it if possible, and post a saved game quickly if I can. Yes to all your advice... I agree especially that the logic hoops some will go through to "explain" how it all makes perfect sense is sometimes quite impressive. If bozos join your side...I've yet to have the problem of anyone joining my side. Concerning pix of 0% exposure guys: In my most recent (thereafter 'next') game I had this occur about *four* times, in *varied* terrain... The first time, it happened in Trench; looked neat, I snapped a little pic. Very arty, too. Then it happened again, again... *Including* in 'Steppes'! Then I went out looking for a free web hosting deal where I can host images, something I'd been meaning to do anyhow- I need one with FTP; I still don't have a solution for posting images here, for petesake. Ah well- you 'get the picture' anyhow, I'm sure. Don't mention my nameWho said that, and where am I? Eden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Redwolf: I came looking for your here as you seem to have quit the other thread. Re German CMBO cdv version / screenshots: you were right and I was wrong (sound of gnashing teeth ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 The whole in command/out of command thing is an abstraction necessarily chock full of compromises. Who knows what it really means? It's only vaguely connected to reality in loose ways. But on the other hand, who's got a better idea aside from going to a whole different level of simulation detail, showing the lieutenant circulating (or not) among his squads, or runners carrying orders (or not), hand signals getting seen (or not), shouts, whistles,etc...but I think you get the idea. As for losing C&C after your squads dig in, I would try finding out what the extreme command range is for each squad and then pull them in five or ten meters. Might vary depending on what kind of terrain they are in. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KursruK Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: As for losing C&C after your squads dig in, I would try finding out what the extreme command range is for each squad and then pull them in five or ten meters. MichaelYes but ONE meter can make the difference at the critical point you're defending. This is a solution to a problem, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a PROBLEM. You can spend hour after hour setting up a solid, layered defense, carefully checking all LOS angles and command range lines. It is not realistic that once you're all set the entire plan becomes null and void because those carefully prepared foxholes can't communicate with the HQ. I hardly think this was a problem in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Reality didn't have a hard border, no certain distance at which the squad would suddenly go out of full control right into no control whatsoever. We have to live with this abstraction, no problem there. But the unrealistic 100%/0% barrier prevents this mechanism from being used for further randomization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: Reality didn't have a hard border, no certain distance at which the squad would suddenly go out of full control right into no control whatsoever. We have to live with this abstraction, no problem there. But the unrealistic 100%/0% barrier prevents this mechanism from being used for further randomization.Randomisation of unit command? The further away the unit is, the longer the command delay? A chance of losing command entirely, recalculated every turn, with the risk of suddenly being out of command (yes/no and duration) dependent on distance and unit quality? Interesting. Deserves some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Nope, I can't make it happen. And I've stretched those guys out to the exact pixel, in setup, where they are still in command... I figured out, at least, why I never see this- I'm always attacking! Almost always... But anyhow. If y'all have a saved game and want to leave it on my doorstep I'll take it in and stick it under BFC's nose, calling it my own child. Otherwise, it's back to the campaign, Eden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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