lavgunner Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Does anyone have any knowledge of the arty piece that launched this monster shell (240mm)? How available was it to the front lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 15 bns of 240mm available to the US Army in NWE. http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/usarmy/artillery.asp Pic of one in towing config http://members.aol.com/oldfungi/adkin4.html Account of use in battle (towards bottom of page) http://www.trailblazersww2.org/forbatt.htm Pic of one in action http://www.stfrancisprep.org/departments/socialstudies/ww2/weapons/usa/artillery/240mm.jpg Ain't Google great [ April 17, 2002, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Uber General Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Given the scale of CMBO battles, is it gamey to purchase arty this massive? I mean really... in a 1500pt battle 1 round of this arty landing on a position will annihalate everyone and everything it comes close to. If used carefully and accurately you can take out or route many platoons with it. Gamey? Or historic? Can i purchase these and not feel guilty (or sorry for the guy on the receiving end)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Sir Uber General: Given the scale of CMBO battles, is it gamey to purchase arty this massive? I mean really... in a 1500pt battle 1 round of this arty landing on a position will annihalate everyone and everything it comes close to. If used carefully and accurately you can take out or route many platoons with it. Gamey? Or historic? Can i purchase these and not feel guilty (or sorry for the guy on the receiving end)?It is really hard to get it for small battles (or impossible for the smallest) and even medium battles it represents a chunk of your resources. In a 1500 point attack I think you could get one (based on a 2250 point total) and maybe an 81mm mortar, assuming you maxed out arty. The 240mm in US Army usage was tasked with siege and built up fires, and was not the most cross country mobile piece in the inventory. I think that the 240mm is gamey if every game is played with it, but as an occasional part of the US arty picture it is not all that gamey. Rarity would help here, since 15 battalions was not all that large, and these guns where held at Corps and Army levels, but they did fire support of ground troops, so there is no reason to deny them from the game as gamey. In fact, against a city this piece and the 8 inch are the primary US methods of dislodging MG and Chreck heavy infantry from buildings without wasting huge amounts of armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Too, the 240mm Bns (and the 8" Gun Bns) were 'half-sized', having just 6 guns/howitzers as opposed to the more usual 12. In total, there were 15 x 240mm How Bns and 5 x 8" Gun Bns, giving roughly enough for one per corps. So, speaking strictly on averages, a line bn (inf or armour) could 'expect' to see support from one of these bns roughly once per month*. Regards JonS *Lots of fuzziness in that number, so I wouldn't be upset if you took it out the back and beat it like the red-headed step-child it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggDogg Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 240 mm arty: Gamey because it will utterly dominate a CM battlefield and make most any CM not much fun, for the receiver, that is. I have no statistics, but I would guess that US forces in a CM game would have "near" (nitpickers, yes, I am exaggerating) the same chance of getting 240 mm support as being hit by lightning. :eek: :eek: Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightGaunt Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 i would say not gamey for the simple reason it soaks up a whole lot of your points. If you DON'T take out a lot of units with it, you will probably loose the battle. So basically you are betting the battle on the 1 piece of equipment. Your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Scipio's artillery rules at www.warfarehq.com make this pretty even. You can only get 150mm/155mm/5.5" arty at the 5000pt. level, and then only 1 unit of it. You only get 1 "medium" unit of 105mm/120mm/150mm rockets/4.2"/4.5"/25 pdr at 1500 pts level, and then only 1 unit @ 1500pts and 2 units @ 2000pts. The rules seem balanced enough, though I haven't played many games using it, and I wonder if these (large!) limits would emphasize Infantry Dominance in CM too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 I utterly abhor rule sets like that. Setting up some parameters beforehand is okay. Like not all SMG squads, and limiting known troublesome units such as the flak wagons. But to out and out deny use of any single unit is ludicrous. You bought a KT? So what. For that many points I can get 2 platoons of infantry, plus three 'zook teams. Used correctly, and depending on the map, that could be a better than even trade off. Just as NightGaunt wrote, the use of that many points for a single large caliber F.O. may cost you the battle, because you didn't have the points to spend on enough infantry, or any AT assets, etc. It's a very risky gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Besides, the 240mm is just the boogey man here, not the all powerful killer. People fear it because when they mass forces, and if the other guy is on his game. you can pay hell for having them target you. But if they are targeted even a little away from a large concentration, and if the accuracy is down, then they can waste themselves on a field. No, this weapon was not like being struck by lightning. Jon makes the once per month suggestion which is probably reasonable for this class of weapon. You con't see these often because it takes a big game to attract them anyway, and they are really a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by R_Leete: I utterly abhor rule sets like that. Setting up some parameters beforehand is okay. Like not all SMG squads, and limiting known troublesome units such as the flak wagons. But to out and out deny use of any single unit is ludicrous.I have mixed feelings about them. Eliminating certain units allows for some balance, i.e. uber-tanks in a late war battle where its hard to buy the right units as a defender to stand a chance. I don't like the fact that such limits give you an unwanted amount of artificial pre-game Intel on what your opponent will NOT have. Example- if you are defending against a Brit attack in a Short-75 game, you know that his offmap arty will be 25 pdr at the most powerful, and that's not really enough against troops in heavy bldgs. I see your point about entirely eliminating one unit...it is fun to see a King Tiger and only have wimpy guns...you really have to think and react to not get wiped out. [ April 18, 2002, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Interestingly, the 1st site noted by JonS indicates there were over twice as many 155mm battalions (guns, howitzers and sp) as 105 battalions (howitzers and sp). So feel free to use those 155 batteries whenever possible! Renaud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Renaud: Interestingly, the 1st site noted by JonS indicates there were over twice as many 155mm battalions (guns, howitzers and sp) as 105 battalions (howitzers and sp). So feel free to use those 155 batteries whenever possible!You'll note that the site listed separate artillery battalions, which would not include those organic to the divisions in Europe. It is significant that such a large number of 155mm artillery was available, though. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 *Lots of fuzziness in that number, so I wouldn't be upset if you took it out the back and beat it like the red-headed step-child it is.Damn, you made me laugh while I was drinking water! DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 I have heard very, very little about the heavy US artillery (8" and 240mm) in terms of its employment. In fact, I was surprised in going to the first site that JonS provided to see how much of it was present in theater. This leads me to two speculations: One, that the guns weren't fired very often, and when they were it was at targets that required that much bang, such as hardened fortifications, etc. And secondly, that the likelihood of their being used in support of your average infantry company in a CM-style firefight is close to nil. That's what the light and medium artillery was there for. They had a lot more ammo on hand and could put it out faster, and that's what you need for most battles in natural or lightly built up terrain. Making a huge hole in an open field a couple times every minute is not going to break up an attack or to suppress a defense very well. But if anyone can fill in the gaps in my knowledge, please speak up. I'd like to hear more about how the heavy stuff was actually used day by day. Michael [ April 18, 2002, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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