Why Smoke?

[pjdg]

I wonder if this has happened to anyone else and more importantly, if anyone else has found it unusual.

During a QB ME (Germans vs. American AI), my PzIV/70's began firing smoke at enemy infantry approx=100m away. The tank hunters had run out of HE but I had expected them to fire AP (but not smoke). None of the infantry I had targetted were zooks and there were no other threats around.

The same thing happened with my PzVG in the same QB.

During another QB (German Attack vs. Allied AI) my Hetzer started firing smoke at a US MG team in a building approx=300m away despite the fact that it had plenty of HE left. What gives?

I Searched the forums but just came up with threads praising the values of smoke (apparently my tankers had read the same posts).

I'd appreciate any advice. If none, sympathy will do. Tnx.

[FFE]

AFVs, ATGs, and mortars will fire smoke in self defense and when the target is threatening a friendly unit. You probably encountered the smoking in defense of friendly units. This is an automatic reflex and there is little you can do to stop it. One option is to fire off all your smoke rounds early in the game. This prevents the AI from kicking into self defensive smoke mode.

Nevertheless, armor being encroached within 100 meters by infantry are liable to start thinking defensively. This range is truly too close for comfort.

[Holien]

A bug...

It has apperently been toned down but still happens.

Some people swear by wasting there smoke rounds at first chance so it does not happen.

In a recent game (still being played) my M10 used smoke on Inf rather than it's HE load.

I guess you can explain it away as the crew deciding that they should not be fighting Inf and wanting a tank as a target.

This and a few other game traits have to be accepted as they will not be fixed.

Sympathy is all I can offer.

H

[Herr Kruger]

Well, AP rounds are not very useful against infantry.. they can cause casualties, but they are much less effective than the HE. I have not come across a situation yet where this "bug" or behavior has bothered me a whole lot yet.. I just interpret as the AFV crew exercising caution and using smoke in case there are enemy AT teams coming up behind that infantry and so they block off avenues of LOS.

[SGTHenry]

As far as I can tell it must be a bug but I use up all my smoke in the begining anyway. :eek:

[Silvio Manuel]

This "bug" will most likely result in me getting a draw instead of a slim win in a current pbem. granted, i'm a beginner, so i didn't know any better but...

i was attacking a PzIV from its left flank with a Greyhound, and had a bazooka (165m) & 40mm Bofors (450m)attacking it from the direct front, an MMG front left to button it (175m), and 60mm mortar to drop HE over it.

but...the 60 mortar dropped smoke, obscuring the target (probably to protect the 'hound and 'zook) and fouled me all up.

[Specterx]

I've seen this happen before. I believe that vehicles sometimes fire smoke rounds to help them aim at the target. This is similar to the effect described in the manual where units will fire at a target (usually AFV) with standard ammunition, even if the round in question hasn't an iceballs chance in hell to get a kill, before using rarer types of ammunition ("T" and "C"). Doesn't seem to make sense when firing against infantry, especially if the AFV has no HE anyway.

[Silvio Manuel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Specterx:

I've seen this happen before. I believe that vehicles sometimes fire smoke rounds to help them aim at the target. This is similar to the effect described in the manual where units will fire at a target (usually AFV) with standard ammunition, even if the round in question hasn't an iceballs chance in hell to get a kill, before using rarer types of ammunition ("T" and "C"). Doesn't seem to make sense when firing against infantry, especially if the AFV has no HE anyway.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That makes sense...I had a Pak40 shoot smoke an inf the other day (when I ordered HE of course). Since it only had 12 HE, maybe it was warming up with smoke? More likely "protecting" my inf.

[Sergeant Saunders]

The manual does say that there is an increased chance to hit the longer you fire at the same target, so maybe smoke rounds count to increase odds of hitting with good ammo.

[pjdg]

Thanks for the replies. Things make a lot more sense now. I guess you just have to live with the decisions the TacAI makes... (Including the gung-ho Sherman that tries to take out a Pillbox with HE rather than using Smoke (as ordered) to cover the infantry moving to flank the Pillbox! :mad: )

How about this one? I've had Sharpshooters take out mortars, guns, trucks, TCs, infantry but they won't even shoot at Jeeps! (More specifically Jeep MGs)

Do they have a minimum range? Are they insulted by the fact that the unarmored crew of a parked jeep is too easy a target?

Thanks again

[Jagdwyrm]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>(Including the gung-ho Sherman that tries to take out a Pillbox with HE rather than using Smoke (as ordered) to cover the infantry moving to flank the Pillbox! ) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Had this exact thing happen to me in a TCP last night ..damn m4 refused to fire one round of smoke and he was way to far to get a KO...I had to move up an M8 HMC in close at risk of AT exposure...I dont understand this

[Peaveyyyyyyyy]

I tried to get a StuH 42 to area fire at a building full of infantry (no zooks) at about 130m

It fired off all its smoke rounds at the building instead.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The other frustrating thing is when you are using a TD or a tank to area fire. Many times now, the tank has switched to firing at a 3in mortar that just ISN'T likely to harm it. Seems odd, but we'll just have to live with it. After all, if we're moaning about tiny little things like this then there can't be that many bugs!

[xerxes]

That 3" had LOS on that flag you held in the woods. If my 3" had followed orders and dumped on your inf my glider squad would have made it in to contest. Your hetzer was playing with ubersmart TacAI.

Great game btw Paul! Photo finish.

-marc

[Silvio Manuel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

The other frustrating thing is when you are using a TD or a tank to area fire. Many times now, the tank has switched to firing at a 3in mortar that just ISN'T likely to harm it. Seems odd, but we'll just have to live with it. After all, if we're moaning about tiny little things like this then there can't be that many bugs![/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that is b/c Mortars "rate high" on the TacAI's targeting list...i.e. it will target AT teams and crews and then get whacked by a tank that pops up.

[Equinox]

I wish they would give the units (or even better, US) the ability to prioritize targets based on what is known as a threat. AT pillboxes that target a flamethrower at its extreme LOS in deference to a tank that just moved behind cover is annoying. Even worse is that Infantry gun that just spent ages aligning on a platoon of infantry is now turning in the other direction to target a mortar/flamethrower/bazooka that appeared for half a second. Arg! :mad:

[xerxes]

Creating a truly effective target selection algorithm is extremely difficult, it requires not only target and shooter characteristics but also elements of distance, mobility, and the tactical situation.

The change I'd like to see is the addition of Hysteresis in target switching. That would lessen the "too many targets" syndrome that occurs. While amusing, it can also be irritating if one is not in the mood.

-marc