A photo of god (and the arcangels)

[Captain Wacky]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

You know, it's amusing that I am being attacked or insulted for my simple statement, which did not attack or slander anyone.

Actually, "amusing" is probably the wrong word. "Sad" works much better.

It never ceases to amaze me that some who demand others tolerate various lifestyles, cultures or ideals are unwilling to tolerate the views, ideals or beliefs of those with whom they disagree.

Steve

No, your statement didn't attack or slander anyone. But here's why it rubs people the wrong way:

This forum has some pretty smart people on it. Smarter than the average internet forum, I'd say. And given our gifted powers of reasoning I'll go out on a limb and guess that we are all fully and well aware that Charles and gang are not god and his holy associates. Obviously. Honestly, we didn't need anyone to inform us of that fact thank you very much, or to chide us on the use of his white-beardedness' name in vain. We have all outgrown sunday school.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Captain Wacky:

... I'll go out on a limb and guess that we are all fully and well aware that Charles and gang are not god and his holy associates. Obviously.

That's is enough!!! :mad: Another word like that and I call the holy inquisition!

[MrSpkr]

Wacky, I never presumed otherwise. I am bright enough to figure out that most rational people would not believe anyone in that picture is God. I also would not presume to act as anyone's Sunday school teacher (though I don't think anyone is ever too old for Sunday school -- it's the name that gives it a bad rap -- "applied Bible study" is a more accurate term).

But the thread title rubbed me the wrong way, as did the celebration of the statement. I was insulted for simply commenting on it in as neutral and passive a manner as possible.

Had I intended to single anyone out or 'chide' anyone, I certainly could have so done. I simply did not think doing so would be very constructive.

Steve

[ August 23, 2002, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[Terence]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

But the thread titled rubbed me the wrong way, as did the celebration of the statement. I was insulted for simply commenting on it in as neutral and passive a manner as possible.

Had I intended to single anyone out or 'chide' anyone, I certainly could have so done. I simply did not think doing so would be very constructive.

Steve

I think I see where you are coming from here. You feel that by referring to a mortal, even a guy as nice as Steve as God, one is blaspheming or somehow cheapening the Almighty. Is that close at all?

Would it be reasonable to compare your objection to someone who doesn't like the words "rape" or "Nazi" or "Holocaust" to be applied metaphorically to people or events that are -- in their eyes -- not as serious?

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Terence:

I think I see where you are coming from here. You feel that by referring to a mortal, even a guy as nice as Steve as God, one is blaspheming or somehow cheapening the Almighty. Is that close at all?

Would it be reasonable to compare your objection to someone who doesn't like the words "rape" or "Nazi" or "Holocaust" to be applied metaphorically to people or events that are -- in their eyes -- not as serious?

Yes, that is it exactly.

Steve

[NightGauntt]

before this gets locked:

MrSpkr: thanks for ruining a perfectly good thread with your preachy sermon attitude.

Soddball: "fundamentalist" you hit the nail on the head.

Sergie: I didn't know you could start an inquisition?!?! this starting your own religion has some merit after all

Scipio: 1."God is almighty - he can come in every form he want to!"

good point

"if god is almighty, is he able to create a stone that is so heavy that he can't lift it anymore"

that would keep true religious scholars up all night thinking about it, but zeolots on the other hand would choose to ignore the question.

My point to all this. This is a forum about a game, lets try to keep a little seperation between church and game shall we. If I wanted to hear a real sermon about actual religion, I would go to some random church of some random religion.

If I want to JOKE about religion, thats a whole different thing, I would listen to Ashcroft.

edited for bad spelling. As my education gets farther and farther in the past, my spelling gets farther and farther down the road to pathetic.

[ August 23, 2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: NightGauntt ]

[Terence]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

As reward for my perspicacity, I hereby respectfully request that you add me to your CMBB hit list.

[Michael Dorosh]

I dunno, I agree with Mr Spkr on this one. He raised an objection, legitimately, and unless I miss my guess, he didn't oblige anyone to respond. He said what his conscience told him, and that could have been the end with it.

I agree with his objection, too, actually, but I don't feel the need to demand retractions or apologies, and I think we all understand that Charles is not God - though in many ways to us, he is a lower case "g" god.

[MrSpkr]

Nightgauntt, thank you for proving my point. I don't believe I was being preachy. I said what I felt I needed to and tried to do it without confronting, attacking or insulting anyone.

As to being a fundamentalist, no, not really -- not in the perjorative sense with which you and others in this thread use the term and certainly not in the sense that most fundamentalists define the term.

If the thread is shut down, it is because of the reactions of yourself and others, not because of my post.

If the thread is 'ruined' then perhaps what I had to say hit home with a few other people, too.

Steve

[ August 23, 2002, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Terence:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MrSpkr:

As reward for my perspicacity, I hereby respectfully request that you add me to your CMBB hit list.</font>

Done. Consider yourself on the List!

Steve

[Speedbump]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

Nightgauntt, thank you for proving my point. I don't believe I was being preachy. I said what I felt I needed to and tried to do it without confronting, attacking or insulting anyone.

As to being a fundamentalist, no, not really -- not in the perjorative sense with which you and others in this thread use the term and certainly not in the sense that most fundamentalists define the term.

If the thread is shut down, it is because of the reactions of yourself and others, not because of my post.

If the thread is 'ruined' then perhaps what I had to say hit home with a few other people, too.

Steve

Steve, what bothers me most about this thread is not the title (I understand the manner in which it was meant), not your comment, but the fact that others chose to personally attack you for making the comment. Frankly, your comment was as benign as it could be. References to you as a "fundi" etc. do not appear to be called for. The value of this community relative to other places on the net is its lack of antipathy among the participants. I hope that people realize this.

Jeff

[Iskander]

Originally posted by Speedbump:

References to you as a "fundi" etc. do not appear to be called for....

Jeff

Well, then, call I call him a Prod? How about an heretic?? Please? Please can I?? Huh???

Nevermind--back to Berli's hell in the snow....

[MrSpkr]

Isky, you just made the List!

I'll look for something as exciting as our last soiree - lots of snow, buildings, etc.

You brought it on yourself.

Now, I'm going home to cook a nice steak.

Steve

[Shep]

I'm the only ordained minister on this board, at least that I know about. A Bible scholar and conservative Christian (and former U.S. Army Cavalry Scout, AND ordained in a church that has two living CMOH winners as members to boot). The original statement I felt was a bit inappropriate, but I didn't feel particularly moved to respond. I think the guys at BFC are riding a well-deserved wave of success, but they seem to have enough common sense to compare themselves with God. I've read enough of their words to consider them to have a decent amount of common sense, even about their own success. "God gives grace to the humble but makes war against the arrogant." Why mess with success, right? I just decided to respect the decency of the majority around here.

Interesting response though.

Best, Mark

[Shep]

"Enough common sense to compare themselves with God"

Enough common sense to NOT compare themselves with God... Ouch!

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by wwb_99:

Anyhow, has it not been pointed out that God has no physical form?

this is christian prejudice.

depending on the concrete type of religious denomination, god might very well be in a physical form. many religions have god in a corporal shape/form.

[M Hofbauer]

plus, maybe we *do* need to cut scipio some slack. maybe he is from east germany, these people have no sense for religion at all after 50 years of state atheism, and it would never occur to them that using god's name in vain might cause concern with anyone.

just speculating, of course. I do know from some distant relatives over there that many of these people *do* have a complete lack of comprehension of what the concept "religion" might be.

[Iskander]

Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wwb_99:

Anyhow, has it not been pointed out that God has no physical form?

this is christian prejudice.

depending on the concrete type of religious denomination, god might very well be in a physical form. many religions have god in a corporal shape/form.</font>

[Scipio]

Okay folks, it's enough. If you want to speak about your religion, go to the general forum.

THIS THREAT IS ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT CHARLES MOYLAN IS THE ONE AND ONLY REAL GOD WE BELIEVE INTO!

I never claimed that he is identic to the god of the (as I assume) yews/christians/muslims.

[Danzig]

Hmmm...

I stand by my first comment.

If I came into this thread before you did and stated something along the lines of "how could you compare the greatest software writers ever to a figment of someone's imagination?" you don't think that would've been inappropriate? I certainly think it would have been, and I think that your statement was just as inappropriate.

I do not try to demean religion or those who need to believe in something higher. I just don't see why people choose to take things so seriously sometimes when it comes to religion.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

plus, maybe we *do* need to cut scipio some slack. maybe he is from east germany, these people have no sense for religion at all after 50 years of state atheism, and it would never occur to them that using god's name in vain might cause concern with anyone.

just speculating, of course. I do know from some distant relatives over there that many of these people *do* have a complete lack of comprehension of what the concept "religion" might be.

Just because you asked for it : no I'm not from East Germany, even if I'm a proud springoff of an old and completly unknown linage of Saxxon farmhands and daylabors!

[Moon]

I don't think that the original intent of this thread was to start a religious discussion (regardless if the title is appropriate or not) -but in any case this isn't the place for one. To be honest, I don't even think the General Discussion Forum is the correct place for it, so I am locking up this thread.

Martin