Dawg Bonz Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Mac Ram Disk Question? Is it possible to load CMBO, CMBB or CMAK game files, folders, application in a Mac RAM disk to speed up the "blue bar" turn progress for a speed challenged 400MHz / 9.1 OS Mac. If so what items would need to be in the ram disk? Thanks for the guidance. Robert 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Welcome to the CM forums and an interesting 1st post Never tried it, sounds good in practice but the blue bar is actually number crunching (virtual dice throws etc) if you did try a Ram disk for your CM folder with app and associated data files you'd better have plenty of memory spare i.e. 1 Gig, to accommodate it all [ November 26, 2003, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Wicky ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bonz Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 Thanks Wicky. Not sure what needs / must be in the RAM disk for the game to work / crunch faster or if it is even a possibility. Thought the game application program would need to be in the RAM disk but what else? Not enough physical ram in my machine for the entire game package. Robert 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by DawgBonz: Not enough physical ram in my machine for the entire game package. Then using RAM Disk is the wrong solution. You need more memory. In the meantime, you might try using Virtual Memory, but I am extremely sceptical that that will help much either. I played around with RAM Disk way back in the OS 8.1 days but could never find a situation where it did me any good. The only benefit from it is when you are using an app that would otherwise be making constant references to your hard drive, and I never had any of those. I think most games load everything they need right into memory. Like Wicky said, your RAM Disk has to come out of your memory budget, so even if it were of any use at all, you'd still be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Buy more memory if your system will accept it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 From what I understand about the RAM disk concurs with what Michael says it is beneficial for applications that call/write often to HD. i.e Filemaker etc. CM makes similar calls for creating the 3D graphics (Hardcoded in the app) and for skinning them from the bmps in data folder. So IF you could load your ENTIRE CM folder into a ram disk I can see a theoretical speed up but as the amount of RAM needed is getting on 1Gig and over (depending on mods)not forgetting memory for system and for the CM app to run in. You need to ask yourself is it worth the hassle and expense, also a RAM disk wouldn't speed up the number crunching as this is wholely dependant on the processor. The easiest way to speed up your CM experience is a processor/whole Mac upgrade with extra memory at least (256/512) and a greater app memory allocation plus a better graphics card (ATI peaked at 7000 Radeon 32mb - downhill after that) Not sure what the best Nvidia card is. My dual G4450 512mb 40Gig works just fine and I don't expect to replace it until CMX2 in another year or two 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bonz Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 Thanks for the reply Michael & Wicky. I may not have been clear enough. Yes I could max the memory out at 1024MB. That would not be enough for the entire CM folder, especially with all the mods (Thanks to Pavlov's MacModganizer… great tool for CM Mac players). I have 576MB of memory. This is plenty to play the games. I was wondering if loading selected parts of the CM game files into a RAM disk would give me any turn calculation speed advantage. Form your replies this sounds like a negative. Thanks for clearing this up. Looks like the graphics data gets loaded and then after turn moves are submitted, my 400MHz ‘upgraded’ G4 processor just chugs along slowly, rolling the virtual dice. I could always get a faster processor (Crescendo/PCI Upgrade G4+ (800mhz, 1M L3 Cache, 200mhz) but that would be an expensive solution for a very old (1996) PowerPC computer. Maybe Santa will be nice and drop a faster processor in my sock? I enjoy the games as is just looking for more speed. Speed is good. More SPEED is better. Looking forward to a new & much faster computer with OSX maybe near the end of next year when the G5s should hit the 3.0 GHz speed bump. The new iteration of the CMX2 games for Mac should play & look fabulous on these new Mac machines & displays. Enjoy the holidays. Plenty to give thanks for in Life. Robert 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by Wicky: CM makes similar calls for creating the 3D graphics (Hardcoded in the app) and for skinning them from the bmps in data folder.But—please correct me if I'm mistaken—it only does that at the beginning of the scenario during the period when there is an on-screen message about loading 3D. So IF you could load your ENTIRE CM folder into a ram disk I can see a theoretical speed up...Why the entire CM folder? Wouldn't just the Data folder be enough? And the speed up would only occur when you were loading a game, not on any of the turns, right? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Glad to offer an angle, CM needs all the bits and pieces in the CM folder - Don't think alias's work. Have you thought of getting a 2nd hand dual G4 450-500, I've seen them at a sad price of 'only' £500 - upgradeable and I bought mine new at the time with the thought of longevity. After 3 years it's still steadily playing CM in OS9 & running OSX.3.1 (that's why the dual for PSD etc) without a hitch. Do you run OSX on your bitza? If not there's a utility called xpostfacto that will get Panther running on unsupported macs. Hope you get the speed you need Originally posted by DawgBonz: Thanks for the reply Michael & Wicky. Robert 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Instead of using ram disk, you could up the disk cache quite a bit. That should give out the same (possible) benefits much easier. And of course, upping CM ram allocation could also help. Although I haven't seen any difference no matter how much ram CM gets. Currently I give it the minimum 55 MB's. Used to give 120 or so, for no visible benefit. Running with 9600/400Mhz G3, 224MB's. You're not the only one with a challenged machine. Still opted for mac CMAK instead of running it with my Athlon XP 1800+, though... [ November 27, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Jarmo ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I'm just hazarding guesses here, CM probably needs to call, build and send to the graphics card extra & 3D bmp data after the initial set up "building 3D graphics" to account for reinforcements, explosions, destroyed buildings turning to rubble etc. This is presumably done in turn and does take a certain amount of time as it does when initialiy creating them I wonder what is exactly going on internally in the twin stages; "computer is thinking" and the blue bar progress bar. CM app needs the data folder in the same folder, as a default it looked next to the CD (in CMBO anyway) so not sure what it'd do in CMBB. If it's not there I presume the app would not be very happy. Not an experiment I have tried nor am I likely to So with a OS9 Bootable 867mhz QS or 1.25Ghz with a couple of Gig of RAM it's IMHO theoretically possible to run CM in a RAM disk and any speed gains would be an interesting possibility. Anyone with a humongous ammount of RAM willing to test to see if there is a speed up? Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wicky: CM makes similar calls for creating the 3D graphics (Hardcoded in the app) and for skinning them from the bmps in data folder.But—please correct me if I'm mistaken—it only does that at the beginning of the scenario during the period when there is an on-screen message about loading 3D. So IF you could load your ENTIRE CM folder into a ram disk I can see a theoretical speed up...Why the entire CM folder? Wouldn't just the Data folder be enough? And the speed up would only occur when you were loading a game, not on any of the turns, right? Michael </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 I've got a Gb on my test box. Will test this weekend (tomorrow here) with CMAK demo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Good idea gibsonm to test with the CMAK demo - Yes it runs in a RAM disk on my Mac!!! Everything seems a lot nippier - will run a stopwatch and post results Originally posted by gibsonm: I've got a Gb on my test box. Will test this weekend (tomorrow here) with CMAK demo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bonz Posted November 28, 2003 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 Jarmo: Thanks for your comments as always. "Instead of using ram disk, you could up the disk cache quite a bit. " I do. Set it at 32,736 max as a normal setting. I think this helps make things pop a little faster in the entire OS but have no ‘scientific data’ to prove it. I have also increased the CM ram allocation & haven't seen any difference either. Amazing how all three CM games are playable and enjoyable on these ancient Macs a/k/a "challenged machines." Wicky: Thanks for all your suggestions. I only play CM with the AI as I have time … and still get beaten. My "challenged machine" blue bar crawl gives me time to do ‘work’ (or sample spirits) till the next move. "… a 2nd hand dual G4 450-500.." Better idea than a $300 processor upgrade for a 1996 Mac. I will most likely hold my $ for the real SPEED fix with the 3.0 GHz G5 next year. By then, with CMX2, the blue bar will be a blur as it zips across the interface. Do not run OSX on my bitza. Tried the utility called xpostfacto for unsupported macs and got 10.1? Running but it was so slow at 400MHz switched back to OS 9.1 . Michael: I was wondering the same questions you were. Here is my plan… Strategy: I also wonder "… what is exactly going on internally in the twin stages; "computer is thinking" and the blue bar progress bar." Maybe someone Battlefront.com Tech Support will read and comment on this and the RAM disk idea? Tactics: Anyone with a humongous amount of RAM willing to test to see if there is a speed up? Gibsonm: Looking forward to test report / results with the smaller CMAK demo. Thanks. -------------------- Just before I posted… Wicky Member Member # 7974 posted November 28, 2003 02:45 PM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Good idea gibsonm to test with the CMAK demo - Yes it runs in a RAM disk on my Mac!!! Everything seems a lot nippier - will run a stopwatch and post results Wicky is wicked fast! Now your stopwatch will tell the tale. Robert 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Playing CMAK demo scenario "Line of Defense" with Axis set to +200% and playing as Axis in similar gameplay Initial "Loading 3D Graphics.." CM on RAM Disk = 19secs CM on HD = 30secs Subsequent moves roughly equal for both "Computer thinking" = 3 secs 'Blue bar progress' = 10 - 12 secs No real improvement except for Mike's predicted speed increase on "loading 3D graphics" Roll on a G6 and CMX2 [ November 28, 2003, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Wicky ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bonz Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 1996 PowePC/180 with Sonnet 400MHz processor upgrade. Processor speed 405 MHz, CPU Bus Speed 45.0MHz, System Bus Speed 45.0 MHz, L1 Cache 32Kinst / 32K Data, Secondary Cache 1MB/202 MHz. Memory Disk Cache set to : 32736 ATI RADEON Mac Edition (PCI) 32MB Thousands of colors Default to CM? CMAK Demo application Memory set to: 118500 * CMAKDEMOGRIDTILESMDA Mod installed. It is difficult to judge elevations w/o grids. ----- Playing CMAK demo scenario "Line of Defense" with Axis set to +200% and playing as Axis in similar gameplay. ----- Initial "Loading 3D Graphics.." CM on HD = 46secs Subsequent moves average of 3 turns; "Computer thinking" = 5 secs 'Blue bar progress' = 41 secs ----- * Interesting note that issuing no move commands to the Axis player in the scenario above created a @ 20% faster 'Blue bar progress' = 33 secs! ---- "Roll on a G6 and CMX2" Good idea Wicky. Robert PS: CMX2 #1 priority but I do hope BFC Tech shares their insights for current OS9x Mac game speed tips. The processor / OS challenged Mac folks would greatly appreciate this. Great games so simple speed tweaks would make for faster fun. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Just as a sidebar comment, I've noticed that in the NA scenario, about the time my Shermans show up, the blue bar really slows down, taking something like a minute. After a few more tanks die, the speed picks up again. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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