marcusm Posted September 12, 2000 Share Posted September 12, 2000 Has anyone played the ASL scenario Marechals mill as USA and won? I have tried 4-5 times to no avail. The odds are simply impossible so it seems. I also let a couple of others try it and they have failed so far. If someone manages to win this, please post a strategy. Marcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusm Posted September 13, 2000 Author Share Posted September 13, 2000 Now there's 5 players and noone has managed to win as US player, one draw only. Is this just an example that ASL scenarios doesn't port very well to CM? Mracus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Perhaps the designer will read these posts and modify the scenario a bit. That is the best solution. A lot of ASL scenarios will work well in the CM format. Some won't. But it is the challenge to the designer to find a way to make a scenario at least remotely winnable from both sides if he can. This is precisely why I have revised Elsdorf and am currently revising the Desobry Operation. If you can't win it, where is the fun? Otherwise, a strong note of caution should go into the test stating that the battle is unwinnable for one side (in this case the US) Wild Bill ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Fredriksson Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Wild Bill, I'm currently pbem-ing Elsdorf (1.05). Is Elsdorf already revised there, or can one of us expect to have a very hard time winning (except for opponent being a pest)?? Note: I'm still a newbie and play the Germans, the Irishman playing the US has a bit more experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 It depends, Stefan. Did you choose the scenario in the game or did you download the revision from the Combat Mission HQ web site. Both play well, except in the original version, the Germans had some problems entering the battle and coming under immediate devastating fire from the US Pershings. That is why I modified it. But go ahead, with either version, it is challenging but winnable. Wild Bill ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 On this subject of hard-to-impossible scenarios, I have a philosophical question. Basically, life ain't fair and sometimes (or, as it seems to the line troopies, more often than not), the assigned mission far exceeds the capabilities of the tasked unit. But orders is orders so in you go. My question is, if such a battle is well-documented, should a scenario designer stick to the facts and give the players a pretty much hopeless situation, or should they "tweak" the balance of forces to make it winnable? I mean, we're not talking about an FPS game where you have to win to move to the next level. We're talking about a game that attempts to recreate reality, as part of which there is no "campaign mode" as seen in SP and such. So if you're unit gets wiped out, you don't lose anything in the long run. For example, take the Huertgen Forest. Here, the US faced some of the thickest segments of the Siefried Line, complete with dozens of interlocking pillboxes and bunkers all surrounded by mines and barded wire, and with dug-in troops in the intervals. And all this in a very dense, swampy forest, that greatly limited the ability of supporting arms of all types to help the grunts break through these obstacles, besides adding treebursts to the woes of the exposed attackers. Plus, on top of all this, the US was at the end of its logistical and manpower tethers while the Germans had the railroads they build for the 1940 campaign, AND the US high command kept grossly underestimating the force required. So for practically the whole campaign, you'd have a lone, understrength US battalion given a task properly requiring 1 or more regiments. Worse, often these battalions were doing the only US offensive actions on the 1st Army's front, so the Germans were free to bring in fresh troops from other sectors. As a result, battalions would spend days or even weeks trying to advance a few hundred meters, suffering appalling casualties, to be replaced when totally depleted by other battalions, who suffered the same fate. So say you make an operation of such a battalion's exploits. As true to life as you can make it. What happens? The US player beats his head against the wall for very little gain and terrible cost. Would anybody find this fun? Or even interesting? ------------------ -Bullethead Visit the Raider Operations message board at www.delphi.com/raiderops [This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 09-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeLover Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 I have to say that the hopeless defenses and the pointless attacks have a very liberating element to them. Hell, you say, it's hopeless. My historical counterpart got creamed. Well, let's see if I can do better--how bad I can make it for the bad guys? See also K. Maru, and the hope of beating the unbeatable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 Thanks, RL . That's my own opinion. Plus, even if you don't do any better, you at least gain a better appreciation of the horror of it all. At least I do. ------------------ -Bullethead Visit the brand new Raider Operations message board at www.delphi.com/raiderops Main site www.historicalgames.bizland.com/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Fredriksson Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 Thanks Wild Bill. We are using the scenario from disk. Even if he wins, I'll take it as good practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Man Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 I agree with Wild Bill that Fictitious battles should be at least marginally winnable from both sides.I also believe that Historical battles should play out historically.My main gripe about all these new scenarios is the overuse of various weapons.Like rarer versions of Tanks and especially artillery.I was playing a scenario where the U.S.had an 8 inch spotter.Maybe I am wrong,but I dont believe they were very common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusjm Posted September 19, 2000 Share Posted September 19, 2000 I still think the ASL scenarios are great. It's really fun to see those boards come alive. One thing I would like for CM2 is the ability to merge 2 maps. Now you have to start from scratch if you want to merge maps 12 and 13 (as an example) Marcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeLover Posted September 19, 2000 Share Posted September 19, 2000 Somewhere on a wish list is enhanced map editing capabilities, including cut & paste, rotate, import, possibly cool things like 'smooth roads.' And, to return to the topic, in the category of tough scenarios I also nominate "Meyer's Decision 1" when playing as Canadians. Against the AI I got stomped even worse than the real-life Canadians did way back when. Oddly enough, I'm looking forward to trying again to see if I can improve. Also got stomped on Marechal's Mill. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted November 3, 2000 Share Posted November 3, 2000 *lol* I won Mareshal's Mill. You know how? I didn't know what to expect in the scenario, so I rushed the GI's over the bridge. The platoon on the left went over the river there and advanced slowly alongside this flank. Hell was I shocked when I saw what was waiting for me. Some lucky zook shots later I had won. Easy, isn't it? ------------------ ----------------------- Croda: "You hang out with a guy named "Warphead?" "Nuts!" " visit lindan.panzershark.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted November 3, 2000 Share Posted November 3, 2000 I could care less if the scenarios are winnable or not. If you want it historicaly accurate, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Some of the most entertaining battles I've fought were desperate tooth-and-nail, down to the last man types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted November 3, 2000 Share Posted November 3, 2000 Scenarios are like women, it takes all kinds. I like to see a variety of them all, impossible, hard, fairly easy, historical, fictional, a mix of both. This way there is something for everyone. Just make sure they are fun to play. That is the vital key. Otherwise, they just gather dust. ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disaster@work Posted November 3, 2000 Share Posted November 3, 2000 As a gamer I want to be able to have the chance to gain something out of it, even if it is just a moral victory. Even if the scenario is a deathmarch, at least you should get more points for dealing damage with your disadvantaged corps. So, if you are Butch and Sundance charging out into the market, doomed to die vs the Bolivian army, maybe you should be awarded more points for at least killing a few before you go down in a hail of gunfire. When I was playing Gettysburg it was my dream to have a scenario where I get to play out the attack on Fort Wagner by the black regiment in "Glory". Doomed to failure but a glorious defeat. One of my scenarios, "Polish Fort", if you play from the Polish side, is a withdrawal. You pretty much have to get the hell out of there with as many troops as you can if you want to 'win'. But even if you don't get enough points for exiting, it should be fun to try and escape while under severe attack. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts