Sgt. Beavis Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Two Parts: 1) The HMG crews seem to have a bug related to the setup time. If you order a team to make a long move (one that isn't completed in just a turn), and issue another movement order the following turn, the HMG will stop at the end of the first waypoint for a few seconds to reflect the time delay of the newer 2nd order. During this time, the setup counter decreases. The HMG then gets up again, to implement the 2nd move order. However, the setup clock is not reset, and remains at the value just prior to the beginning of the 2nd move. I think BTS needs to look at it 2) I have gotten FTs in a couple of defensive QBs, and the FTs miss their shots... many times, it seems. They will fire 3 or 4 times in a row, "missing" the enemy (so far this has happened against enemy infantry, not sure about vehicles). The enemy unit isn't hurt or suppressed by these misses, and keeps pumping rounds at close range into my FT, usually killing it before it does any damage. A problem, perhaps? I would think that the FT should be able to at least suppress an enemy with the first shot, or at the latest the 2nd. It's extremely short range and my team was in a foxhole, unspotted, in an ambush position. They shouldn't have trouble at least scaring the crap out of the enemy on the first or 2nd shot, not the 4th or 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 yeah i hate the "my weapon's spread is two tiles, but i'll miss at 10 meters by three tiles" behavior that make flamers useless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousOxide Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 The "way-off" misses are cause by the game engine placing missed shots randomly about the map. This happends to tanks also. Don't ask me why it's like that, it just is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Beavis Posted November 4, 2002 Author Share Posted November 4, 2002 Originally posted by AnonymousOxide: The "way-off" misses are cause by the game engine placing missed shots randomly about the map. This happends to tanks also. Don't ask me why it's like that, it just is.Understood....but.... Why do they miss at this range? A FT is not a precision weapon. I would hope an operator, who is unsuppressed, would be able to do effective area fire... before wasting as misses half the ammo load of 9 "shots." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 The FTs seem to be a little too off, I agree. There is a laso a problem with flamethrower vehicles and rate of fire. The (realistic) highrate of fire of the OT-34 mans it soots its ammo in two turns (and usually missed). I think the one-minute fixed turn concept of CM requires to lower this somewhat, so say at most 3 shots/turn. Anyone knows whether the flamethrower accuracy depends on the wind? That would make more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Somebody with a lot of free time could run a test, firing a FT into a strong headwind. I'd like to see a pic of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurd Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 I had the same setup time bug as your HMG : it was for a 75mm Inf gun. Anybody else who's seen this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Beavis Posted November 4, 2002 Author Share Posted November 4, 2002 Originally posted by Sigurd: I had the same setup time bug as your HMG : it was for a 75mm Inf gun. Anybody else who's seen this ?I've just noticed this too; I was playing another QB that included a Pak40, and the setup times were not reset after each new movement, just as in my first post about the HMGs. I strongly suspect there is a slight bug at work here. Hopefully BTS will reply to this, or look at the thread I also hope they review the "to hit" chance for the FT teams; seems a bit low. [ November 04, 2002, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Sgt. Beavis ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveL4 Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 This is my first post here, hope it's relevant! In response to the flame-thrower targeting issue... last night I played a QB and set everything to random. I played the Germans, random result was a city assault, in January 1942. I had never used flame-throwers before but thought they might come in handy on this one. As I advance up the left side of a large city (with my random GREEN engineer troops) I unexpectedly ran into a T-34 that was prowling the streets. The tank caught several engineer squads, along with an HQ, crossing a wide street and shot them up pretty good, causing most of them to take cover and/or sneak in reverse back where they came from. The tank continued to wreak havoc within the city block that I had advanced to, and was chewing up the follow-on infantry as well. My whole attack was halted by this one marauding tank! (Of course, my tank hunter squads were a couple blocks away). I had one flamethrower squad that had survived the carnage and plotted him to run a short distance and round the corner of a small building and take a shot at the tank. As the turn progressed he strolled around the corner, the T-34 showing it's rear to him and machine-gunning more infantry, he calmly knelt down on one knee and shot one long burst at the T-34 and it burst into flames! I screamed out "YES" when it exploded and my wife ran into the room to see what was wrong. She didn't get it! Awesome game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 I agree with the FT topic. I've tested 2 battles 1 with FT PZ-II and 1 with FT PZ-III. The FT PZ-II had 9 shots and hit all of his targets. The result of his action: 4 Russians killed and 1 mortar destroyed?? The FT PZ-III got immobile in a scattered tree area but was covered by a PZ-V about 300 meters behind him. He had 50 shots and the Russians where all over him. He shot 50 shots and killed only 19 Russians??? I think this is far to less because most of the attackers where 12 person squads. Maybe this is an item for the next patch Jaws Good Hunting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 A flame thrower's effect against troops in the open was mainly morale IMO - how many russians routed away from the tanks?? Put it this way - once an infantryman knows that the tank's a flame thrower it's going to be quiet difficult to get anyone to stand right in front of the gun! It's a different story agaisnt fixed positions such as pillboxes, weapons in foxholes and buildings, which is what they'er issued for in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I'm currently playing an operation and I have two flamer HTs. My opponent probably wouldn't agree with your assessment of their effectiveness. Inexperienced FTs are much less accurate, it was this way in CMBO also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Beavis Posted November 5, 2002 Author Share Posted November 5, 2002 bump I would be interested to see a BTS comment about the HMG, mortar team, and gun setup times The FT teams...well, I'll play with them a bit more, varying experience levels and terrain and units involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I killed a Panther with a flamethrower once. And another time had a single flamethrower wipe out three squads of advancing infantry firing from a stone building. They are very effective when used correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Beavis Posted November 6, 2002 Author Share Posted November 6, 2002 I'm not saying the FTs are ALWAYS ineffective But I am suggesting that perhaps their ability to hit should be increased somewhat, given that it is extremely short range, and the FT is an area fire weapon, not a precision one requiring extreme accuracy or skill to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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