What German & US artillery

[Night_Rider]

can destroy tanks? besides 105mm that is.

[Chad Harrison]

i didnt think that they could, but the other day on my battle "the crossroads" i took out a markIV with a 81mm mortar round! :eek:

any armored car can be taken out by mortars, i dont think i have ever seen a 105mm shell take out a tank. its more common for a shell to immobilize one or damage its gun, and then the crew bails out. 155mm+ will get some interesting results, but your better off using those rounds on infantry. if a tank happens to be there, great! but i would never call down shells on JUST a tank. (the markIV was an exception, because the onboard 81mm was all i had and he was protected because his shots were directed)

[Moriarty]

The short answer is pretty much any ATG "can" take out "nearly" all the AFVs you'll come up against. It gets much trickier if you are really asking questions like:

Will it take out the AFV on the first shot?

Will it take out the AFV from any angle (especially a frontal shot, where the armor usually is thickest)?

At what range, will the ATG you choose take out which tank?

The 50mm ATG (German) and 57mm ATG (US) have the capability to take out virtually any AFV you are likely to see. That said, you'll need good position, close range, side or rear angle and a measure of luck against the more heavily armored AFVs or AFVs with more sloped armor.

I'll stick to onboard arty that is primarily antitank in nature ... although the various howitzers and IGs sometimes have AP or tungsten rounds.

I don't like spending a lot of points on onboard arty because they tend to be taken out quickly after they are spotted.

For AT purposes:

The US 57mm and 76mm guns are pretty dependable. The 76mm ATG will take out King Tigers from the side or rear.

On the German side, I'm a fan of the Pak 38 (57mm) and 40 (75mm). The Pak 43 and 43/41 (88mm) are a little pricey for the return on points spent.

From January 1945 on, the 8cm PAW is a dandy weapon, having a balanced AP/HE loadout, which makes it just as nasty for oncoming infantry as armor.

Just a suggestion, but I'd also focus on learning what you can about the tanks you think you'll be facing. Example: If your opponent picks Hetzers, you'll be facing a tank that has heavily sloped frontal armor, so shells ricochet frequently. But, its side and rear armor is thin.

Knowing a bit about the AFVs you expect to face may help you pick out the best antitank assets, either guns or AFVs, to deal with them.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Moriarty ]</p>

[Crash-Neptune]

What exactly IS the 8cm PAW (PanzerAubertiWerfer? Somefink like that :confused: )

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Crash-Neptune ]</p>

[Galatine]

Keep in mind it isn't always neccessary to destroy a tank to eliminate it's combat effectiveness.

Track hits can be just as good, especially against turentless vehicles like the Hetzer. I recently had a battle where my Ami super-tank took a track hit from a bloody,lousy on-map 81 mortar. He never got to fire a shot in anger. You want to see PO'd...

But even the light stuff can harass tanks, forcing them to keep buttoned up, so as to reduce there spotting abilities. That delay in spotting can make all the difference in a gunfight...

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Galatine ]</p>

[Moriarty]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Crash-Neptune:

What exactly IS the 8cm PAW (PanzerAubertiWerfer? Somefink like that :confused: )

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Crash-Neptune ]<hr></blockquote>

Panzerabwehrwerfer ... loosely translated as antitank defense thrower. For CM purposes, it's an 80mm gun that can punch a hole in a Churchill at 700 meters plus.

[Night_Rider]

thank you sirs.

[Equinox]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

i didnt think that they could, but the other day on my battle "the crossroads" i took out a markIV with a 81mm mortar round! :eek:

any armored car can be taken out by mortars, i dont think i have ever seen a 105mm shell take out a tank. its more common for a shell to immobilize one or damage its gun, and then the crew bails out. 155mm+ will get some interesting results, but your better off using those rounds on infantry. if a tank happens to be there, great! but i would never call down shells on JUST a tank. (the markIV was an exception, because the onboard 81mm was all i had and he was protected because his shots were directed)<hr></blockquote>

I had a 150mm shell knock out a Sherman during Drive to Mortain (an unexpected bonus) Just now I finished playing the Audie Murphey Scen and had my 105 spotter take out a Jadgpanther as well as a Stug. It is possible, its just not something to count on, IMO. In addition during a little test I did I found you're more likely see higher caliber arty causing more general KOs (no hit message) on tanks than top/deck hit KOs (which give the message, 'top penetration'.

In general I dont think its worth using off-board arty as a 'tank killer' unless you've simply been given an obnoxious amount of it. There are certain circumstances however. Id be more than tempted if they were bunched up or had open-toped vehicles mixed in. A moving barrage of light stuff on a tank column approaching an ambush point is another one.

[Chad Harrison]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Equinox:

I had a 150mm shell knock out a Sherman during Drive to Mortain (an unexpected bonus) Just now I finished playing the Audie Murphey Scen and had my 105 spotter take out a Jadgpanther as well as a Stug. It is possible, its just not something to count on, IMO. In addition during a little test I did I found you're more likely see higher caliber arty causing more general KOs (no hit message) on tanks than top/deck hit KOs (which give the message, 'top penetration'.

In general I dont think its worth using off-board arty as a 'tank killer' unless you've simply been given an obnoxious amount of it. There are certain circumstances however. Id be more than tempted if they were bunched up or had open-toped vehicles mixed in. A moving barrage of light stuff on a tank column approaching an ambush point is another one.<hr></blockquote>

my ULTIMATE luck story was againt the AI on a defend battle were my amis had NOTHING to defend with, except a 105mm FO. well the battle is raging, and the germans have about 10 total Half tracks running around, about half are spw 251/9's (with the 75mm gun).

any who, i call in my 105's aiming for the infantry, and the AI gets five HT's all next to each other to fire on a .50cal that was giving them grief. they were all on a single scattered tree hex. i thought to myself: that would be cool if a 105 could get one of them. the first shot landed nearby, then the second tree bursted RIGHT above the five HT's and KNOCKED THEM ALL OUT! :eek: :eek: no abandoned, KNOCKED OUT! cool eh?

so it can have its effect, but as you said, its mostly crippling hits not KO/Abandoning

[Silvio Manuel]

In South of Sword, my 150mm FO took out:

1 Sexton

1 Daimler

2 M5A1 HT

3 Carriers

1 MMG Carrier

numerous infantry

...but that was vs the AI, who gave me a nice vehicle park in plain view to immolate.

[PFC Tom]

I was very lucky, I just took out a panther head on at 400 meters with a US 57mm AT gun and a German SP gun. The panther was hit in the turret and the SP gun exploded like a water mellon. I did use veteran crews on all my AT guns. My other two AT assets are still hidden. The 57mm got off 5 shots in 25 sec. with 2 kills. One of those was a HE round at infantry just before 3 AFV's topped the hill. It still has to deal with a Mark IV but I have some other assets that I will take off of hide during this next round.

[Stoffel]

I killed two churchills in a 300mm rocket barrage

it was in a scenario from the depot,I thought it was named something as armored ambush

in it were all guns,FO's and vehicles from germans and brits

[Ellros]

I've taken out a Churchill with 120mm mortars. Any artillery can destroy a tank... assuming you can get a top armor penetration.

[Cpl Carrot]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ellros:

I've taken out a Churchill with 120mm mortars. Any artillery can destroy a tank... assuming you can get a top armor penetration.<hr></blockquote>

Um no. 3 inch mortars most definately won't go through the top of a Tiger. Unfortunatley for me

[Iron Chef Sakai]

i rocked a puma with a shot from a 105mm howtizer while i was playing as the french in an ip game. the puma was hauling down the road when bam, direct front hit exploded the puma, steering it off the road about 80 meters, on fire, and knocked out, aslo a poor heavy mg-42 happend to be hitching a ride on it went it was hit, needless to say the heavy mg-42 unit was completly eliminated. 1 howtizer shell, 2 birds, hehe

[Galatine]

I did some quick field tests of various German arty vs the American M4A3 (Top armour- 19 deck, 25 turret)

Some of my Conclusions:

1) A minimum of 105mm is required to have any significant chance of effect (beyond forcing a button-up) on the M4A3

On-field 81mm, 81mm FO and 75mm FO have (at best) a marginal chance of causing immobilization or gun damage.

2) A rule of thumb is: The larger the ammo load the more chances of scoring a hit, BUT the larger the shell size, the greater the chances for that hit to have had an effect.

3) Rockets are wild cards. They hit over a huge area but when you do score a hit- you'll do some damage! However they are very cheap. So the question is: Do you want pay the cost for a controlled effect or go cheap and roll the dice?

Map/battle size and type can be the determining factor. Rockets like alot of room to work.

4) Keep in mind the rate of fire, as well as the time to call a fire mission in, and finally, the target type.

210mm come down at a rate of 4-5 vollys per minute; 150mm comes in at almost twice that rate (8-9), though with half the blast.

Do you need that extra blast or is it just going to be overkill with wasted fire power?

Do you want power concentrated on a small area intensely or spread out over distance and time?

Do you want a sustained, supression fire or a hard 'haymaker' killing blow?

Select the tool to suit the target.