Guest Imperator Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 I played as the British. What really bugged me about the briefing was that it didn't really specify my objectives. Because I saw the whole map each battle, I guessed it was Destroy, but the briefing said to take the bridge so I wasted effort crossing it. I didn't really know which way the threat would come, so I raced scouts at the beginning of the first battle. This didn't leave me with enough forces to mount a serious attack on the Puma on my flank and its attendants, but my Vickers tore up the foolish infantry that raced across the bridge. I also threw a grenade in the back of the wooden bunker. That night, the AI sent a couple of light vehicles across the bridge, but my PIATs were close enough to hit them before they could do any damage. On the second day, I PIATed the annoying armored car in my side and routed the infantry. I also realized that my artillery is resupplied to a certain level each battle, so there's no incentive to save it (very gamey IMHO). The SS halftracks appeared on my side of the river and I didn't finish them off until the beginning of the night. A few other vehicles came across, including an assault gun (StuH42 IIRC). I immobilized it well behind my lines, and was half a minute away from Gammoning it. But then the turn ended. I consider it highly unrealistic that the assault gun escaped and came back that night. Would my crack paratroopers sit down for a cup of tea after 15 minutes of fightning and let a truck come to tow the assault gun across the bridge? But anyway, that night I massed my best units near the bridge, and quietly established a base on the hill at the far end of the bridge. I found the distance my crack paratroopers could see from an upper-level window across clear terrain and assumed the pillbox wouldn't do any better; I raced a unit around to the back, staying out of its vision radius. You'd think that crack paratroopers would have the intelligence required to not blow themselves up with a bloody Gammon bomb, but apparently they felt like demonstrating natural selection. I hadn't noticed anything in the little hamlet right beyond the hill, so I moved my advance forces indoors for the night. The last day I couldn't accomplish anything because a Stug with infantry support was pounding me from out of the range of my PIATs. In desperation, I managed to immobilise him with artillery, but of course he was loose again by nightfall. At night, I assaulted the group of buildings where an SS platoon was hiding. I took surprisingly few casualties, probably because I left a few squads behind for suppressive fire. The Stug came rolling through the road junction oblivious to my PIAT. Maybe next time he'll remember to give a turn signal. I did achieve a major victory, and it was a tough fight the whole way. I hope my PIATs enjoyed all that exercise. My on-board mortars weren't very useful; to see past the buildings to the other shore, they had to be on the waterfront, where they were too low to get a good LOS to anything. The flamethrower also ended up as a posted scout. I don't see why this couldn't have been a 90 minute mission instead of an operation. It would have avoided the issue of battles ending with troops in close combat. It was quite enjoyable, but I'd have preferred to simply smash the enemy outright and then play a 3 day cricket match on the other side of the bridge. I did appreciate the complications that having every other battle at night caused. It would have been very painful to cross the bridge in daylight with no vehicular support beyond a Jeep. Now the questions: What should I have done with the artillery, both mortars and FOs? How could I possibly cover all the terrain on the other side of the river in time, so as to check for hiding infantry? How am I supposed to conduct an offensive in the light? Urban combat is one thing, but when machine guns are covering the bridge from both sides, all I can do is sit there hoping the enemy will do something silly and attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 >What should I have done with the artillery, >both mortars and FOs? In a word: Command. Put them under the control of an HQ (in the command radius of an HQ in a building), then you can keep them back behind the buildings and hammer on the other side of the bridge. >How could I possibly cover all the terrain >on the other side of the river in time, so >as to check for hiding infantry? Send out a few squads to search for them. The infantry you run in to is pretty weak and you can chop them up with a single squad. If you've got Gammon's it's relatively easy to ambush the armored vehicles. How am I supposed to conduct an offensive in the light? Urban combat is one thing, but when machineguns are covering the bridge from both sides, all I can do is sit there hoping the enemy will do something silly and attack. Suppression and smoke Hit them with artillery/machine gun fire/general suppressing fire and run a platoon across. Hope this is some help, just from my experience playing the same scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imperator Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 Good point about the indirect fire. Didn't think of that. Does it work with spotters too? (I know they can fire indirectly anyway, but does it help their accuracy to have an HP with LOS in command range?) Yeah, I thought of smoke, but I counted the number of units I had capable of laying smoke and the number of known vehicles and machine guns, and I decided it wasn't worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 Actually Imperator when I played this for the first time I wiped out the Puma and escorting infantry on my sidfe of the river and pushed two platoons across the bridge all by the end of the first battle. After that it was simply a case of using my arty to HE anything which tried to break my grip on the far side and using MGs for long-range suppressive fire and it all worked out rather easily for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 Fionn, I had much the same experience with getting troops across the bridge in the first battle, but then, I couldn't get them off the bridge because there was a very large Puma pounding on them . But I did manage to keep a squad and HQ hidden in on of the buildings and I'd just keep popping up and nailing anything that came close . Oh, and those half-tracks streaming across the bridge... what fun, racking up the kills on those. Cheers, Walter R. Strapps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 Ah well, when I played it the Pumas and 2 platoons of infantry tried to attack across the bridge. I massacred them and then only had to race two platoons across the bridge and fight of the 4 or 5 frightened survivors of the main attack. Has anyone seen the AI push a destroyed vehicle off the bridge yet? It does happen sometimes and is fun to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 Sorry the text was not clearer on objectives Imperator! I'll take the blame for that one. Really, what I sought to create was the feel of the British under siege at the bridge. I felt that ideologically if not "gamey" point of view, the idea was to hold at least the north end of the bridge. Holding both ends is nearly impossible. I've never been able to do it. I was able to hold the northern end though it was "dicey" Since I love history so much I tend to let that flavor what I design. By holding for three days the northern end of the bridge I felt that I had accomplished at least as much as Frost and his valiant band had done. I guess I am a dreamer more than a gamer. I love the feeling of history recreated under my fingertips. That of course, is not entirely possible, but if I can catch the flavor, the feel, then I personally like it very much. Your point on diminishing ammo and artillery is well taken for this kind of scenario and could have had a real effect in the game. something to note for future versions. Thanks for the reports gentlemen. By the way, designing that map alone took me a week. It was worth it, but getting that bridge just right and trying to put the buildings...well, try it sometime I hope you enjoyed it. ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imperator Posted June 22, 2000 Share Posted June 22, 2000 Wild Bill, from the placement of the buildings I could tell you'd spent a long time designing it. It was well-balanced, too. If I had been playing against a human, I would have had great difficulty. I played it again today, giving the Axis +25% and a three-game experience bonus. Knowing which flank to guard allowed me to crush that force in the first battle. I also raced to kill the pillbox and occupy the buildings flanking the bridge. The first enemy infantry came at the end of that battle and I MGed them all the way across the bridge. At night I rushed across the bridge with PIATs, squads, and HQs. I got there just in time to ambush the enemy vehicles as they rolled through one by one. The AI tried some suppressing fire, but it wasn't focused enough, and I had too many PIATs. On the second day, I had all my mortars in place for indirect fire, so I destroyed the rest of the enemy vehicles. I occupied the buildings nearest the bridge but didn't push an advance because he had too many troops in defensive positions. At the beginning of the night, I moved more troops across and attacked in all directions with the ones I had. I was mostly successful, and then I had two more battles to mop up. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to allow objective flags in operations. However, they can sometimes greatly distract from the real military objective. (Example: if there were an VL on the other side of the bridge, a gamey player would have no incentive to take it before the last night, which wouldn't really accomplish the objective of "holding the area around the bridge".) I do love the long historical text in the briefings. They really adds flavor to the historical maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAEZ Posted June 22, 2000 Share Posted June 22, 2000 ******Maybe a SPOILER**** * * * * * * * * * I just had a PSW234/1 Push a burning halftrack of the Bridge...That was just to cool BTS...Thanks for the memories [This message has been edited by PAEZ (edited 06-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddog Posted June 22, 2000 Share Posted June 22, 2000 I played this as Allies as well. I found the briefing a little confusing. It said hold the bridge for 3 days and since it was 6 battles (3 night, 3 day) I figured that meant i had to take both ends of the bridge on the 1st battle and hold it for the remaining 5. Looking at wot i had and where I started this looked nearly immpossable. So I decided to just take the town end and hold that for the 1st battle and see wot happened. I smashed the wooden bunker with a perfectly plaed gammon bomb in the rear. The puma on my side took a front turrent penetration from a PIAT I had guarding my left flank. the puma on the other side took a top penetration from a 2 inch mortor (lucky shot, was just trying to scare it . Basically I had 2 platoons of infantry and a few PIATs guarding the bridge and 1 machine gun which raped any germans who tried to cross. The next battle I decided to stay put on my side agian. More jerries tried to cross and were riddled with gun fire. Several tanks/halftracks tried to go where the infantry had failed and meet the same fate. This continued for another battle till I put down smoke on that pill box on the jerry's side. I then rushed 2 platoons and 3 PIATS over the bridge and into the houses along the shore on thier side. Then those 7 or so half tracks showed up and I smoked all but 1 in 2 turns. I got a major victory and destroyed pretty much everything the jerries had. Wot i found wrong was this. U can just rush a few units over the bridge under smoke cover around turn 14 in a battle. Then during the next setup phase u can place all your units on the other side where those units r. This doesnt seem very fair to me. Playing as the jerries for example u could race a few units over than place tanks and amoured cars over the other side without having to do the bridge crossing. The zones across the river should be a different colour and thus u shouldnt be able to place units from 1 side to the other during setup. Wow didnt mean to ramble on like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reddog: I smashed the wooden bunker with a perfectly plaed gammon bomb in the rear. The puma on my side took a front turrent penetration from a PIAT I had guarding my left flank. the puma on the other side took a top penetration from a 2 inch mortor (lucky shot, was just trying to scare it . Basically I had 2 platoons of infantry and a few PIATs guarding the bridge and 1 machine gun which raped any germans who tried to cross. ... U can just rush a few units over the bridge under smoke cover around turn 14 in a battle. Then during the next setup phase u can place all your units on the other side where those units r.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I essentially did the same thing, but went across on during the 2nd scenario behind a smoke barrage. Also ended up being able to move my reinforcements across by 'flying' them there during the setup phase. In the pic linked below, the highlighted Vickers MG is supposed to be set up on the opposite side of the bridge, but I moved him during the setup phase. I'll move him back before starting scenario 3, but just wanted to show what could be done. I also got a strange white setup area on the German side. Unfortunately I can't move my guys around in it. See pic: http://users.erols.com/chare/gifs/arnhem_turn3_setup.jpg And, what happened to the dead Stug and HTs? I knocked them out; shouldn't they have stayed; the MG pillbox did? I don't recall if the Stug was abandoned or KOed, but I know that one of the HT's was KOed. That trip across the bridge was harrowing, though. Great fun! Well, off to see what scenario 3 holds in store for me. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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