Different versions of MG42?

[Brightblade]

When I compared the firepower of infantry squads I noticed great differences for the MG42. Most squads had 50 at 40m, 45 at 100m, 30 at 250m and 18 at 500m. But the Sturm squads had 23, 38, 31, 19 and the SMG squads 20, 39, 32, 19. All squads were from May 45. So, what´s the difference between these MG42?

[ October 11, 2002, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

[Ace Pilot]

Oh! Oh! Oh! I know this one!

The MG is the same. The change in firepower has to do with whether the assistant gunner picks up his squad weapon or continues to assist with the MG as the range to the enemy decreases. Squads equipped with SMGs find that the loss in firepower when the assistant gunner abandons his post is more than made up for with his SMG. That isn’t true for rifle-equipped squads, so the assistant sticks with the MG.

There are a number of threads that discuss and explain this in more detail. Hopefully, someone can point to them. And, this feature is also present in CMBO.

Ace

[Brightblade]

You are right, this was featured in CMBO, but only for the heavy SMG squad, if I didn´t miss anything. The reason you gave sounds pretty good in RL as it is certainly better to take a SMG for very close combat than to assist the MG which usually is not flexible enough at very close ranges. In CM it seems like there is only a loss in firepower for the MG and no gain at all. Firepower for a single SMG seems always to be the same in any squad. Gebirgsjäger squads have many SMGs in BO and BB alike, but they don´t suffer the loss in firepower for the MG.

You don´t know where or how I might find those thread you mentioned?

[Brightblade]

I found the threads now.

Heavy SMG squad FP table (includes links to more threads about that topic)

But the MG is still the only weapon which looses firepower and only for certain squads. Why? All other weapons have the same firepower in any squad. 8 Kar98k have twice the firepower of 4 Kar98k which have twice the firepower of 2 Kar98k. At any distance. The same is valid for the MP40 and the MP44.

And where is the difference between the German Gebirgsjäger squad and the Sturm squad? They are similarly armed, only the Sturm squad has 4 MP44 instead of 4 MP40 and has a reduced firepower for the MG.

I don´t understand that at all (which is probably my own fault, but maybe someone out there is kind enough to enlighten me).

[ October 11, 2002, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

[Brightblade]

Anyone out there to enlighten me? I don´t want to die as stupid as I´m now...

[Mud]

Why only the MG?

It's the only crewed weapon of the bunch -- you don't, for instance, have one guy aiming a Kar98 and another guy fetching ammo for it, or changing barrels. A submachine gun/machine pistol is the same way: one guy fires it, reloads it, and unjams it if need be.

A machinegunner needs somebody to keep feeding it belts of ammo, and to change its barrels as well. If the gunner's alone, he needs to at least periodically stop firing to fuss around with ammo...

[Brightblade]

All right, the MG2 (machine gunner´s assistant) is certainly useful and has enough to do, so when he is distracted by using his own weapon a certain decrease in firepower for the MG should be OK.

But it seems like the MG2 is always using his own weapon, as there is no difference in firepower for all other weapons in any squad, which is a bit strange to me, but as the other weapons have a very low firepower at more than 100m, that probably won´t really matter.

To reduce the MG´s firepower at close distance seems to be realistic (the MG being too inflexible at close range and the MG2 being busy), although IMO to reduce it by 60% or 54% is a bit steep.

And why do only certain squads suffer from this reduced firepower? What is it about the Gebirgsjäger and the Sturm squads?

The Gebirgsjäger squads have 2 Kar98k, 6 MP40, 1 lMG42.

The Sturm squads have 2 Kar98k, 2 MP40, 4 MP44, 1 lMG42.

The Sturm squads have a reduced firepower for the MG, the Gebirgsjäger don´t.

Why? Because of the 4 MP44? Were they that bad, worse than the MP40?

[ October 13, 2002, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

[Bastables]

Originally posted by Brightblade:

All right, the MG2 (machine gunner´s assistant) is certainly useful and has enough to do, so when he is distracted by using his own weapon a certain decrease in firepower for the MG should be OK.

But it seems like the MG2 is always using his own weapon, as there is no difference in firepower for all other weapons in any squad, which is a bit strange to me, but as the other weapons have a very low firepower at more than 100m, that probably won´t really matter.

To reduce the MG´s firepower at close distance seems to be realistic (the MG being too inflexible at close range and the MG2 being busy), although IMO to reduce it by 60% or 54% is a bit steep.

And why do only certain squads suffer from this reduced firepower? What is it about the Gebirgsjäger and the Sturm squads?

The Gebirgsjäger squads have 2 Kar98k, 6 MP40, 1 lMG42.

The Sturm squads have 2 Kar98k, 2 MP40, 4 MP44, 1 lMG42.

The Sturm squads have a reduced firepower for the MG, the Gebirgsjäger don´t.

Why? Because of the 4 MP44? Were they that bad, worse than the MP40?

Logically the men with the marginally effective weapon in German infantry doctrine, K98 would be the ones serving as gunner number two. The sections with the drop in power/rof for the LMGs are the ones that have no bolt-action rifle carrying chaps in them.

[ October 13, 2002, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Bastables ]

[Brightblade]

Bastables,

sorry having to contradict you, but if you had read my posting you quoted, you´d have noticed that the Sturm squads do have K98, even two of them. They suffer the loss in firepower for the MG anyway. OK, it´s not as bad as in a heavy SMG squad, although 23 to 20 is not that much of a difference.

[Bastables]

Originally posted by Brightblade:

Bastables,

sorry having to contradict you, but if you had read my posting you quoted, you´d have noticed that the Sturm squads do have K98, even two of them. They suffer the loss in firepower for the MG anyway. OK, it´s not as bad as in a heavy SMG squad, although 23 to 20 is not that much of a difference.

Sturm Sections only have the K98 subtracted from their FP rating just like the Gebirgsjäger 44

A Strum 44 sections dual MG42 firepower is identical to a Gebirgsjäger44B dual MG42 firepower. The Gebirgsjäger44A single MG42 is exactly half of the firepower of the duel touting Sturm and Gebirgsjäger sections and is identical to other sections equipped with only a single MG42.

Also I can't seem to find this single LMG Sturm Section that you refer to.

[ October 13, 2002, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Bastables ]

[Brightblade]

No, Sturm squads have their MG firepower reduced. I guess you mistook the Sturm squads for the Sturmgruppen. You are right there, a Sturmgruppe doesn´t have the decreased MG firepower.

Sturm platoons are available in Grenadier Battailons ´45 and they are armed as I said above.

But where did you find a dual MG Gebirgsjäger 44 squad? I looked for it in every single month of ´44 and ´45, for WH Mountain and SS Mountain, but I could only find Gebirgsjäger 44, armed as I said above.

[ October 13, 2002, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

[Bastables]

Originally posted by Brightblade:

No, Sturm squads have their MG firepower reduced. I guess you mistook the Sturm squads for the Sturmgruppen. You are right there, a Sturmgruppe doesn´t have the decreased MG firepower.

Sturm platoons are available in Grenadier Battailons ´45 and they are armed as I said above.

But where did you find a dual MG Gebirgsjäger 44 squad? I looked for it in every single month of ´44 and ´45, for WH Mountain and SS Mountain, but I could only find Gebirgsjäger 44, armed as I said above.

Gebirgsjäger 44B are there in june 1944.

You're right this Sturm Section inspite of two K98s has a MP40 serving as number two.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! first I can select Gebirgsjäger 44B in May 44 then only in June 44 and now not at all.

[ October 13, 2002, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Bastables ]