Questions about Unit Placement

[OG_Gleep]

One of the hardest parts for me is the setup phase. I am a big fan of fixed guns, but constantly second guess myself.

All you guru's, what are some placement strategies for fixed guns? What do you look for when placing guns? How many guns minimum should you have?

I have done this many times....I have a big gun capable of wiping out many enemy armor units (like an 88). I obviously want to position it in a place where I can do the most damage. If I place it in a spot where it has a limited field of fire, but is protected, I run the risk of armor bypassing its field of fire. At that point you have a nice piece of dog poo. If however you place it in a spot where it has a lage field of view, you have to opportunity to engage his armor regardless where he goes. BUT, as soon as you fire the first shot, his entire force will open up on you.

That said, I need some advice from you CMBO Ninja's. When dealing with fixed arty, what do you do to ensure you can deal out maximum damage, and what do you do to ensure that the gun and its crew make it to 1946.

Thanks

[winkelried]

1) to be realisitic forget that a gun crew will make it til 1946. give them 5 shots, maybe 6.

2) place the gun rather deep in a wood / tall pine or scattered tree so that the target line gets dark blue. this will make it more difficult for the enemy to spot them even after they start their fire.

3) HIDE the gun and shoot only when you see the white in the enemy's eyes.

4) put them on reverse slope. keep the firing distance short to increase effectiveness and hit probability. 500 m maybe 800 m is fine. (except maybe for the 88 if you want to fire dozens of shots against a single target)

5) use flanking positions wherever possible. tanks are most vulnerable on the flank (the silhouette is larger too.

6) use the guns in pairs. this increases the hit probability further.

7) protect them with HMGs and mortart (smoke ...).

8) have the prime mover close to change position (I do this with a good success rate - lose 50% of the guns - but would lose them anyway since the position is compromised). doesn't work with the 88.

Counter Tactics:

- have mortars to put blind the guns.

- have 105ers or 150/155ers to zap them.

did i forget something ...

[winkelried]

... ah yes, don't open fire on these bloody recon vehicles ...

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by winkelried:

2) place the gun rather deep in a wood / tall pine or scattered tree so that the target line gets dark blue. this will make it more difficult for the enemy to spot them even after they start their fire.

That decreases hit probability, badly. I also didn't see it do much good for against being spotted.

3) HIDE the gun and shoot only when you see the white in the enemy's eyes.

Only if there are not too many units coming into LOS. If there are, you get spotted too soon and supressive fire from normal rifle squads becomes effective.

7) protect them with HMGs and mortart (smoke ...).

Antipersonal mines are also good in front of guns.

[Redwolf]

Here is more humble opinion stuff:

Buy TRPs for your important guns.

There is no way to build a price-competive defense abound big, expensive guns. The only expensive guns worth having, price-wise, are the 150mm infantry gun and the 40mm Bofors.

CMBO's spotting and supression rules leave only one kind of suitable placement for important guns: long but narrow lanes. You need med hills for that. Cheap guns intended only for disposable use are fine anywhere where they can see much.

Don't rely on the crappy CMBO foxholes. In the open they are a joke and in woods you are vulnerable to treebursts.

Smoke, protect your guns by smoke. Artillery spotters switch to the wide pattern and indirect fire isn't delivered anymore. The smoke rounds in you tanks might be useful for that, but they get the tank spotted.

Understand the strength of the Flak autocannons.

[winkelried]

That decreases hit probability, badly. I also didn't see it do much good for against being spotted.

you're right with the hit probability. need to find a good compromise. helped me though ... maybe luck ?

Only if there are not too many units coming into LOS. If there are, you get spotted too soon and supressive fire from normal rifle squads becomes effective.

you're right, that's why you need to be in a reverse slope if possible to see only as many tanks as you can chew (depending on your rate of fire e.g.).

Antipersonal mines are also good in front of guns.

and maybe on the flanks ... you need a good web of weapons to get the job done (e.g. build a "fire sack/bag" -- or how do you call this in english?). if the infantry gets so close that you need the mines, you're probably cooked anyway ...

[ July 01, 2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: winkelried ]

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by winkelried:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Only if there are not too many units coming into LOS. If there are, you get spotted too soon and supressive fire from normal rifle squads becomes effective.

you're right, that's why you need to be in a reverse slope if possible to see only as many tanks as you can chew (depending on your rate of fire e.g.).

</font>

[PiggDogg]

Winkelreid,

Counter Tactics: - have mortars to put blind the guns.

have 105ers or 150/155ers to zap them.

did i forget something ...

Yes, you did forget something: German 120 mm Mortar FOs. :eek:

They are the German's only fast response arty that can kill. All the other German fast response arty (75s, 81s) don't kill squat, they generally only surpress.

Cheers, Richard

[ July 02, 2002, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: PiggDogg ]

[Sir Uber General]

I also like to deploy AT specific guns in positions that are higher in altitude and further back than Inf guns, all of which is positioned on a reverse slope. This means that your AT guns will be able to see over the top of your IG's, protecting them from armoured nasties.

Ideally your inf guns can fire first knowing that they are covered by the AT guns. When the enemy brings up armour to kill your IG's, open up with the AT assets. If the enemy wants to get to the ATG's with inf, they have to go past your IG and supporting infantry. Sprinkle liberally with MG's and mines, bake for 30 turns, you have a winner.

Cheers

U.G

[ July 02, 2002, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Sir Uber General ]

[Sig]

And don't forget to have your gun under the control of a HQ unit. It really increases it's survival under bombardment: the crew is far less prone to abandon the gun.

Another trick is to use a steep slope to position the gun. When the bombardment starts, very few rounds will hit at the same level the gun is and most of the blast "waves" will be either under or over the position. Lethality seems significantly decreased. Just be careful not to position the gun too close from the ridge: CMBO blasts pass through terrain feature situated at the same level (if I recall correctly).

Under control a good HQ (green, +2 moral), I had once an AT gun with a green crew survive the full 81 allotement of an american FO (was in the open in a foxhole, so, no tree bursts). The crew had 2 casualties, but stayed firm and was a major contributor to my victory. The gun was positionned as I described earlier. Now, I agree: not statistically significant , but worth a try (or further testing).

Sig

[Tripps]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Here is more humble opinion stuff:

Smoke, protect your guns by smoke. Artillery spotters switch to the wide pattern and indirect fire isn't delivered anymore. The smoke rounds in you tanks might be useful for that, but they get the tank spotted.

.

Redwolf, are you saying to use your own FO's to lay smoke around your own guns? Or all over their assets to decrease the amount of units returning fire on your guns?

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Tripps:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by redwolf:

Here is more humble opinion stuff:

Smoke, protect your guns by smoke. Artillery spotters switch to the wide pattern and indirect fire isn't delivered anymore. The smoke rounds in you tanks might be useful for that, but they get the tank spotted.

.

Redwolf, are you saying to use your own FO's to lay smoke around your own guns? Or all over their assets to decrease the amount of units returning fire on your guns?</font>

[Tripps]

Originally posted by redwolf:

QUOTE]FOs are usually too slow. Ideally, a tank which has been spotted by the enemy anyway can shoot smoke in front of the gun, without exposing itself to enemy fire. Your own on-map mortars, when hidden and spotted for by a HQ, may be good, too.

The smoke is so small that you have to take a good guess where the fire will comes from. If mortars are shooting you can see by the patterns where the mortars are. If an artillery FO is shooting he will lose ammo from the wide pattern.

Shooting the smoke rounds out of tanks and mortars is a often good idea anyway, since you won't suffer from smoke round bugs later [/QB]

I think i get where your coming from, your saying after your IG/ATG's have opened fire, pop smoke around them, the enemy cant shoot back, so move on to other targets, smoke clears, bam, they start laying waste again?

even if thats not what you were getting at, i like the plan

and yes, after experiencing my AFV's popping smoke at the enemy rather than AP, i may start employing this....

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Tripps:

I think i get where your coming from, your saying after your IG/ATG's have opened fire, pop smoke around them, the enemy cant shoot back, so move on to other targets, smoke clears, bam, they start laying waste again?

even if thats not what you were getting at, i like the plan

The gun will be dead soon either way. However, using smoke you can reduce the units shooting at your gun by -say- 2/3, continuing to shoot at the remaining units visible besides the smoke. You are less likely to get supressed. Usually it's pretty obvious where to shoot the smoke to blind the most dangerous shooters.

Or you can try to pull the gun out with a halftrack or gun tractor.