Stuarts - I love em

[GRUMLIN]

Is it just me or are stuarts better than shermans? no, stop laughing, i had one today in the bridge too far scenario that took out 6 nme vehicles including a couple of stug IIIs. I find that if you set them a long looping run at top speed around and through the nme tank formations, it really buggers them up and whilst the nme thrust falters you get side and rear hits....

[Doug Indeep]

yes they can be good but only at close range(on the side).They are mainly used for scouting so You dont have to use your biger tanks(sermans,T-10's,ext.)

[Redwolf]

They can kills StuGs only from the sides. In non-historical games you see lots of StuH (not StuG), and you need stuff to get rid of them. Since the Stuart is not suitable for doing so, you need to buy other armor for the job and since you don't have endless armor points people end up building Greyhounds instead of Stuarts. Also, the M8 HMC is a better help against infantry masses, which a big problem in "advanced" Quickbattles.

I think the real reason why the Stuart is more likeable than the Sherman is that the Sherman has so bad going in any ground but roads, except if you take the HVSS models which in turn are very expensive. Another solution than the Stuart is buying Cromwells instead, that way you get the nice US 75mm gun in a swift package and if you prefer it you may also go with the 95mm close support gun.

The Stuart is vulnerable to the 37mm flak, which in turn is instant death because of the extreme hit probablity. The Stuart is hence more attractive in months where 37mm flak and Ostwind are not available (assuming noone uses the SdKfz 7/2 anymore these days).

[flamingknives]

Ha, forget vanilla Shermans, I've had a Stuart show up a Firefly

Marvellous little tanks. Nothing like it to piss off a Jerry player than to take out one of his Pz IVs with a little baby recon tank.

Cheap too.

And they have all the worlds ammo load out

And all the worlds MGs

Each.

If only they could be fitted with a Littlejohn adaptor

[tone]

My favorite vehicle is the German 37mm flak truck. IMO, it is seriously undervalued in point cost ... particularly in relation to the fixed 37mm flak gun.

Consider:

1. will kill just about any allied tank from side... even at intermediate ranges.

2. curiously hard to hit, it seems. I have often seen it duel a tank and win.

3. it MOVES! arty and mortar fire can easily kill the non-mobile version. this little fact makes this truck very nice

4. it don't miss. I often see it get a gun hit on an unkillable tank.

Placing two of these on a map and using cover judiciously can often lead to an armored car and halftrack holocaust that would make a metal-head cry.

tone

[xerxes]

It's broken Tone. The flak truck is invulnerable to AP fire and that's what tanks fire at it.

Many people will be very upset if you use it against them.

-marc s

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by xerxes:

It's broken Tone. The flak truck is invulnerable to AP fire and that's what tanks fire at it.

This is wrong. The tanks fire HE, however, direct hit is not modeld an they don't lead a moving target. See the FAQ at http://thforums.com/CMBO/

Many people will be very upset if you use it against them.

They are outright banned from almost any game.

[Agua]

Originally posted by redwolf:

[They are outright banned from almost any game.

Yes, use one of these against most folks, and they won't play you again.

BTW - Redwolf, was it you and I that had that test game full of flak trucks, puppchen and volkstrum smg? That was pretty damned funny.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Agua:

BTW - Redwolf, was it you and I that had that test game full of flak trucks, puppchen and volkstrum smg? That was pretty damned funny.

Yepp. Nailed all the flak tractor bastards, but IIRC the infantry guns killed me. Maybe I shoudn't have chosen Hellcats, Kangaroos and Daimler ACs to advance into a defense known to consist of Pueppchen, infantry guns, flak tractors and SMG platoons

Fun game. Why didn't we play a scenario ever, BTW?

[Agua]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Why didn't we play a scenario ever, BTW?

I think essentially we had, about at that same time, gotten into TH CAL as it had just started up. I played a few games of that and found that I really, really disliked ladder play. Nothing against Yobobo, Abbott, all the rest, and I did enjoy the goal of weapon limitations, but ladder matches just put a heavy competitive pall over play and I found/find it unpleasant. I think back in those days, it seemed no one wanted to play unless it was for ladder matches so the motivation for me to suggest a game was absent and you never mentioned it. As I recall, that evening immediately following that game, you posted for *another* game saying something similar to "It's me again, the beating-head-against-the-wall wargamer in search of another game against a player who favors the gamiest of oob's: Pueppchen, flak trucks, you name it!" LOL!! I literally doubled over in laughter when I read that one.

[lavgunner]

Try this one. I had a Stuart light up a Panther and Panzer IV from the side in one turn. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Yggdrasill]

I just had a sacrificial Stuart play decoy.

He conducted a flanking maneuver around the side of a hill which distracted two Panthers. These turned and advanced to the crest to meet po' li'l Stu, and KOed him as he frantically backpedaled. That same turn, tho, they both died from rear turret hits by a 76mm sherman who popped up 600 meters away behind a rise--BAM! BAM!

Good job STU!

[Gpig]

Heh heh. Yeah, I love Stuarts in my sights, as well.

I'm playing a PBEM game and in the 1st 10 minutes I've managed to take out 7 of them Stuarts.

One Shreck shot. One Faust shot. One Marder shot. One flamethrower shot (what an explosion!), and 3 down to one of the dreaded Axis autocannon. (Above 20mm.)

It was quite lucky really.

Gpig

[Yggdrasill]

<For Gpig> a clarification. In the above example, it was my Stuart that got nailed and my 76Sherman that nailed the Panthers.

I love Stus for their mobility, price, and virtually unlimited ammo. Stuarts alone are vulnerable, but they complement an armored force excellently.

[DarthMaul]

I find Stuarts rather cheezy, along with Grey Hounds, but to each their own. :mad:

[Breakthrough]

They are great in the anti infantry role too. They carry the same number of MGs as a medium tank and twice the load of HE ammo. The 37mm HE round had about the same effectivness as a HE grenade. 'Hello Second Armored' is a great scen for Stuart lovers.

[PiggDogg]

Breakthru,

I think that someone (JasonC, I think) in a recent article describing some tests that he performed regarding Stuarts versus infantry.

If I am not mistaken, the net result was that Stuarts were pretty bad versus infantry. Once again if I recall correctly, this seemed to be due to two reason. First, the 37 is just putrid versus infantry. :eek: Second, all mgs (including those on all tanks, medium & light) seem to be undermodeled in CM.

In short, don't expect to stop much infantry with Stuarts.

Cheers, Richard

[ July 05, 2002, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: PiggDogg ]

[CombinedArms]

I agree on Stuarts vs. Infantry. Give me the M8 any day. At 58 points vs. 95, it's much cheaper than the Stuart and its 75mm howitzer packs a lot more punch. The c round can kill most of the medium strength German vehicles from the front, and Panthers from the side. If you want a fast, thin skinned tank killer, the Hellcat just costs a few points more than the Stuart.

So, while I'll happily use Stuarts when I am issued them, I don't think I'd often buy them in a QB.

[Stalin's Organ]

One of the main reasons for using Stewarts, IMO, is that they are king of AFV's if you're using Fionn's "Recon" restrictions.

The Germans get limited numbers of Puma's, adn the other vehicles they get mount only 20mm, which is often insufficient against the Stewarts relatively thick armour.

I have a vague feeling that the Jerries are now allowed the short 75 in the 251 h/t in the lastest iteration of the rules, but I haven't used them for a while.