Competitive play and Rarity

[meldorian]

Hi!

I have played CMBB several times in quickbattles against a friend. We both enjoyed CMBO very much, partly because that game was so well balanced. You could buy King Tigers, but for the same ammount of points, the allied player could get something equivalent, like two Challengers for example. But in CMBB, I have found that this no longer seems to be true. During certain periods, either the Russians or the Germans can buy tanks which are completly invulnerable to almost everything that the other side can field. In 1941, the KV tanks can only be destroyed by 88 mm Flak and infantery tank hunter teams with LOTS of luck (like in really, really, really, lucky). This lasts until the long 75 mm guns appear.

Then, the game is playable for a short while, until the invulnerable German tanks appear. Against the StuGs and Pz IVs with 80 mm front armor it can be argued that the Russian player can get himself those long 57 mm guns or try to go for a flank shot. But there is absolutely nothing that will stop a Tiger. At least, I could not find it. Than comes the 85 mm gun in August '43 and everything is fine again.

Until the Kingtiger is introduced in summer '44. How do you stop this freaking monster? Even the ISU-122 and IS-2 cannot kill it from the front, and those stupid Russian tanks retread even if they approach the King Tiger from the sides. In CMBO, if you had your Hellcats or Challengers or Cromwells flank a KT, the KT was good as dead, but not so in CMBB. Or you could get a ship-load of bazooka teams or piats, but the Russians don't have any decent anti-tank weapon that is not mounted on a tank (Anti-tank rifles *grrr*). The only tanks I found to be capable of matching KTs are the SU-100 due to its low cost and powerful gun, which makes them very effective at flanking maneuvers, and the IS-3, which is even more resilient to the King Tiger's fire than the King Tiger is his. Maybe this is realistic, I don't know, nor do I care. The super-tanks should cost more, at least during the periods when they are super-tanks.

Now my question is: Can competitive, i.e. fair, play be achieved by activating Rarity? On the one hand, I would clearly say yes, as the tanks which are almost invincible in certain periods weren't very far-spread during these periods and therefore are more expensive to buy, for example the Tiger would cost more than 600 points in 1942. On the other hand, I thought that the point values have been chosen by the game desingers in order to reflect each weapon systems realtive strength. This would mean that my friend and I are simply to stupid to deal with those German tanks.

So how do you get a fair game, Rarity on or off?

[Le Tondu]

Fair play is something that I am always after as I game against friends. (I avoid ladder competitions like the plague.) In my opinion, it isn't very challenging for me when I have an overwhelming edge --equipment or numerical wise.

For fair play, your efforts must begin before the game is ever started. Chat with your opponent over the phone (if you can) and work towards having a fair game. Maybe you should use some sort of agreed upon limits in terms of how large your tank's guns are. Fionn Kelley's set of rules can be a BIG help.

For an all tank QB, I have found that June 1944 is a pretty good place with captured Panther As vs. German Panther As. Three German platoons of 5 tanks against five platoons of 3 tanks on a 5000 point (rural or farmland) battlefield with light trees and modest hills should do it nicely. Oh yeah, turn off the victory flags and just go after each other.

Tests show that Panther As are really even against captured Panther As and you should have a real competitive game with them. I don't recommend using captured Soviet tanks in the hands of the Germans as the Germans are given too great an advantage against the same Soviets tanks.

Ask your opponent for ideas and realize that you'll make mistakes until you find that "sweet spot." Experiment with rarity on and off.

Another neat thing to try is to have even sides agreed upon like:

A platoon of (evenly matched) tanks, a platoon of (evenly matched) recon vehicles, a platoon of (evenly matched) infantry, one 81mm FO (radio if possible), and a truck. Once placed, the truck cannot be moved by the owning player. The flags are also turned off here and the idea is to find and destroy your opponent's truck before he destroys yours. The FO cannot be used until the truck has been sighted. The honor system is a must for this kind of game and it can get pretty exciting when you play it.

Maybe exact numbers of similar tanks isn't even play for you as you might have more experience than your friend. You gotta "feel" what is best for your situation.

Just remember that your imagination is your only limit.

[ November 16, 2002, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Le Tondu ]

[MasterGoodale]

Interesting post. I agree 100% that the King Tiger (and any tank that reigns supreme during a given time period) should cost much more. That way people would really have to sacrifice to have one. I plan to start playing people in PBEM soon once I get a little more experience and to me a fun and fair game would be a game where tactics and strategy are what win the battles, not the weapons themselves.

[Tarquelne]

The "invulnerability" of units has been discussed before... and it's probably about to start happening again. So, I'm going to skip everything else in your post and just talk about Rarity.

I recommend Variable Rarity. Many competative players are loathe to pay a Rarity "tax" on units, and for good and valid reasons, to them, ruthless b*stards that they are. The obvious problem is that playing with the rare stuff is often fun. The solution? Variable Rarity. You'll _usually_ just get the "vanilla" units, but every once and awhile Tigers, KV-1s, whatever will be down to normal cost or just 5%-10% above.

If you're willing to grab a calculator you can try this: Use Standard Rarity, and each player is required to spend X number of points on Rarity. (Ie, the points only go toward paying that Rarity "tax". In a 60 Required R-points game you'd fulfill the requirement by buying a 260 point unit that had a +30% Rarity factor. Both players have "wasted" the same number of points on Rarity, so they have equal combat-effective point forces. Set "X" higher for games with "uber" equipment, low for games with only a little. (I'm trying to figure out how many unspent Rarity points could be counted toward your victory point total... you forgo using any Rarity points and get PzIIIs rather than Panthers, but have some portion (125%, 50%?)victory points added to your final score... anyone have any suggestions?)

[x13th]

With rairity on I think the KT is a gamble at best. You need a road and an open line of fire or else you just sank 300+ points into a real cool looking tank going no where and doing squat. This beast bogs like it wants to swim.

Other than that, try flame throwers, they light up a tank real good, avoid "open" excanges, rain artilery on the tank position then close with infantry. You do not need to "blow up" a tank to knock it out of commission.