Help with unit purchase

[Puffer Fish]

Hi all,

I'm about to start a couple of PBEM games with some friends. I'm relatively new to CM gaming and would like some advise on which units I should buy ? I've played quite a few scenarios but this is the first time I'll be picking my own and I feel a bit daunted !

I'll be Axis in one and US in another, so help on both sides would be useful.

What are the main factors I should to consider ? I haven't got the map details yet so I'm not sure what terrain I'll be fighting in but I guess this is a biggy.

We are considering playing Fionn's Panther-76 rule but I'd like tip my hat to 'realistic' force compostion so any good sources of info on this would be useful so it doesn't become too gamey.

Hope this topic is not done to death or if so some useful points to threads would be great.

Please help prevent my butt from being kicked from the turn one ! I'll try to handle the tatics on the battlefield !

[Slappy]

If you've played a few scenarios, then my biggest advice is: Play with what you are comfortable with. What did you do well with in the AI scenarios? What did you not figure out how to deploy efficiently? I would let this guide you initially.

Second, go for balance. I have no idea what the point value you are talking about is, but I would recommend starting with a healthy infantry force. You can hold and take ground, and they are fairly resistant to enemy fire. Get some artillery, more than you think you need. Don't go for 1 or 2 really monster tanks, better to have 3-4 medium tanks. Again, this gives you better resistance to freak accidents and more operational flexibility.

More info on Attack/Defend by nationality would probably help too.

[Redwolf]

Do you want a rather historical force or push effectivity/price?

How many points is the game?

[hitlers underpants]

PERSONALLY AS A GENERAL RULE I WOULD COMPROMISE MY FORCE OF 40%INFANTRY(REGULAR+VETERAN MIX)20%ARTILLERY AND MORTARS ETC. 20%ARMOR(MEDIUM CLASSES LIKE PANTHERS IF GERMAN OR SHERMAN IF ALLIED.AND FINALLY 20% OF ANTI-TANK GUNS AND INFANTRY GUNS.I USE THIS AS A ROUGH GUIDE,OBVIOUSLY KNOWING WHAT THE TERRAIN IS LIKE AND WHETHER ON ATTACK OR DEFENCE I WOULD CHANGE THIS ACCORDINGLY BUT NOT BY MUCH.HOPE THIS HELPS.HAPPY GAMING

[Redwolf]

Of course, the very first unit to get is a shift key.

[Cpl Carrot]

Under the 76 rules the Caps Lock is the first unit to be bought. You are thinking of the 75 rules.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Cpl Carrot:

Under the 76 rules the Caps Lock is the first unit to be bought. You are thinking of the 75 rules.

Hey, I know that. I am pretty sure Hitler is sitting there holding one shift key down with one hand permanemtly commited to that task (or maybe his nose?).

[hitlers underpants]

U GUYS ARE HILARIOUS,OH BY THE WAY MY CAPS LOCK KEY IS BROKEN,SO THAT IS THE REASON MY POSTS ARE IN UPPERCASE!!!!

[Redwolf]

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010820&mode=classic

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010821&mode=classic

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010822&mode=classic

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010823&mode=classic

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010824&mode=classic

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010825&mode=classic

[hitlers underpants]

CARTOONS U POSTED ARE VERY FUNNY REDWOLF,BUT NOT AS FUNNY AS MY YOUNG SON WITH MY KEYBOARD IN HIS HANDS DUNKING IT DOWN THE JOHN AND SHOUTING LOOK DADDY ITS A BOAT

[Puffer Fish]

Thanks for the advice (especially about the CAPS LOCK). I shall wait to see the type of battle then take it all in when deciding.

WRT units, I'd like to try historically accurate forces if poss.

On an aside - if you let the computer pick your units in a quick battle - how good a job does it do ? I've never tried this.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Puffer Fish:

WRT units, I'd like to try historically accurate forces if poss.

On an aside - if you let the computer pick your units in a quick battle - how good a job does it do ? I've never tried this.

The computer selection often leaves you with engineers which means you don't have enough infantry squads and/or without sufficient AT weapons. It is doable, but people should say one or two rejects each.

Historical forces that are still effective involve Pz IV or Panthers with Panzergrenadieren (mot - without halftracks), US rifle with cheap Shermans and Jacksons, British with Cromwells (75mm variants) and Challengers or cheap Shermans and Fireflies. Buy biggest ary you can, VT if available. Avoid very thin vehicles (Hummel, Marder, Nashorn, halftracks, Sexton), too slow vehicles and fragile units like infantry flamethrower teams. Avoid Axis Heer Rifle 44 for effectivity and Volksgrenadier SMG, Fusilier SMG and Gebirgsjaeger because of overmodeling/underpricing. Fallschirmjaeger with lots of StuG IV (StuG III has bad going on difficult ground) will be competive and are priced right.

Get bodyguards for valuable tanks. A Pz IV can very well use a 250/9 buddy to shoot up armored cars threatening its thin turret, Panthers can use Pumas to shoot up flanking Stuarts or Hellcats.

Don't ever get SdKfz 7/1 and 7/2, they are broken in the game. Flakpanzers can dominate large areas completely, but were quite rare and are somewhat fragile.

Generally, get strong infantry. Infantry is stronger than tanks in CMBO. Axis rifle 45 with Hetzers is entirely historical and effective. british with flamethrowers is not unrealistic from rarity, if you can keep a Churchill Crocodile alife it rocks.

Because infantry is so strong in CMBO, people tend to buy close support tanks (105mm or 95mm guns) to get rid of enemy infantry, but that is a problem for historical accuracy, they were rare. Same applies for the thin vehicles with short 75mm guns. Try to be competive by using the US semi-long 75mm on Shermans or Cromwells, it is quite good and they have lots of ammo. Pz IV offers much more ammo than StuGs and might also be sufficient to tame infantry. Try to hit enemy infantry hard with your artillery, it is effective and realistic.

I do not recommend trying to win games by buying "anti" forces of any kinda, you lose if you don't have stuff to shoot at. That especially applies to buying lots of high-end Jagdpanzer, you win only on the mercy of your opponents choices. Do not be afraid when you lose your tanks - on any med trees/med hills map you can still win if you have enough infantry and if you gained the space you need to operate it.

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Here we have two types of SPAAA, unarmoured (the halftracks) and Flakpanzers (armoured, as the Wirbelwind and Ostwind).

Target tracking of unarmoured vehicles is "broken" in CMBO, in the sense that no lead is added when aiming for a moving soft target.

This gives the AA halftracks an unhistorical advantage in CM.

As for historical overall availability the most common German SPAAA was a truck mounted single barrel 2cm gun.

For the regular infantry division there was a battery with about 14 in the AT battalion.

The halftracks in CMBO are one option to represent this.

The Panzer divisions typically had;

- A unit (4) of SdkFz 7/1 in the Panzerjäger battalion HQ company.

- Another four SdkFz 7/1 were in the AA battalions light AA battery (together with eight towed 37mm AA guns).

- The Panzer regiment HQ had a couple of Möbelwagen (Wirbelwind equivalent).

- The Panzer battalions each had four SdkFz 7/1 or Wirbelwind in the HQ company.

- The Panzergrenadier regiments each had an AA company with eight SP single barrel 2cm guns.

Note that most AA was deployed around regimental and higher HQs, which are off most CM maps.

Cheers

Olle

[Redwolf]

Almost forgot, a beginner's guide:

http://thforums.com/CMBO/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=30

[Puffer Fish]

I've also being doing more extensive digging through the site a bit more and found loads (!!!) of info on tatics, so that will help me in unit choice. I've even borrowed a copy of Advanced Squad Leader from a mate to learn more about vehicles so that will help

I guess I've got lots of reading to do !

Are they are good texts or web sites you'd recommend ?

[Puffer Fish]

Whoops posted message twice. This is the delete !

[ April 14, 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Puffer Fish ]

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Puffer Fish:

Are they are good texts or web sites you'd recommend ?

The single most helpful book I found is "Armor Attacks" by John F. Antal. (Avoid the infantry book in the series, though).

[vbfg]

Originally posted by redwolf:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Puffer Fish:

Are they are good texts or web sites you'd recommend ?

The single most helpful book I found is "Armor Attacks" by John F. Antal. (Avoid the infantry book in the series, though).</font>

[Thermopylae]

Infantry...ye gods, more infantry than you could ever think you could use. This prevents you from losing that crucial point in the line just because a lucky arty routed a platoon. Or it lets you pay in men for needed ground. Either way, you can't go wrong with maxed out infantry. It has perfect historical precedent too. Then AT weapons (be they other tanks, guns, or whatever). Finally, at least one module of artillery, preferably with another one for every 500-800 points over 1000 the game size is. If your a defender, buy TRPs(the more arty, the more trps...for 10 points your arty become s exponentially more effective), and maybe some mines/wire. People don't think minefields do much in CM, but they can be used as point defense systems near a firebase if you only have a few, and can be use din their proper denial role when you have more. The attacker should use these points to buy either extra arty for smoke purposes, or light armored vehicles for hi-speed fire support, enemy light hunting, and recon.

[Muggles]

oooooooooooo man I bout fell out of my chair laughing when i heard what happened to your keyboard man... i'm sorry

*moment of silence*