anti-jabos tactics

[xerxes]

I've been wondering what determines the chance of friendly jabo fire. I also really wonder what the best anti-jabo techniques are. Mastering the jabo defence would be one of the keys to playing Germans in a clear weather scenario. I've been thinking of hiding my armor in scattered trees till the Jabos leave. I even thought of smoking my own armor to protect them. I've also noticed jabos seem to have a single approach direction. I'm thinking putting your armor directly behind a large building opposite the Jabo approach path would keep them safe. I haven't tried any of these but I'm thinking there must be some tactics that work.

Nobody ever discusses anti-jabo techniques, too bad, since I've grown to think it's a core skill of a German player in a clear weather scenario.

-marc

[Redwolf]

All valid assumptions, however I think that CMBO is not that sophisticated. For example, vehicles in scattered trees will often flee the jabos - into the open. At least for halftracks that seems to be the case. I do not know but would bet that hiding behind houses or on roads with dense woods on both sides does no good.

AA asserts are very worthwhile in CMBO, including 234/1 and 250/9 (but not Lynx). I haven't tested too much, but I believe that the CMBO airplane model is only very rough and the only player interaction is AA asserts, and only a rough inclfluence on where the AAs and the to-be-proected units are.

Unit selection is also important. CMBO airplaces are only point-effective against forces with a good chunk of light armor and few AA weapons.

[xerxes]

Heh, this isn't a unit selection discussion! Bad wolf, down.

Seriously, picking AA assets is the way to go in a player pick but since most everybody bans JAbos it's not really useful.

What do you do in a scenario is the question. I'll do some testing myself when I get a chance.

[CombinedArms]

My one thought in a scenario is to exit HTs, trucks, jeeps, etc. off the board ASAP unless you desperately need them onboard for some reason. Jabo bombs may or may not hit, but then the plane comes back and strafes! And I've seen a pair of jabos kill 8-10 HTs, etc. easy, which is an awful lot of points literally up in smoke.

So my advice is--exit those light vehicles before the Jabos arrive, if the briefing leads you to expect them. Or, if they've just bombed, run like mad for the exits with all light vehicles, preferably through scattered trees.

[Ron]

From limited experience with FBs in play and more running 'tests' I would have to say their behaviour is pretty random

To answer some of your questions...

I think the chance of FBs attacking friendlies will be influenced by their experience level and more importantly if there are no enemies 'present/revealed'.

If the possibility of facing air support exists in a QB/scenario and I have AA assets I will place them in some form of cover, just never next to a building. A clear LOS on 'land' isn't really necessary I have found. Simply a pair of 20mm Flak can scare FBs away or prevent them from making more than one or two passes. Actually shooting one down seems to be a rare occurance.

I have never seen a vehicle hiding in scattered trees unhide and attempt to flee though that's only my experience, I can't comment on what others have. I would think however that's not exactly common either as it is generally safe to have them hiding there. I agree with you about being next to a building, hiding or unhiding, as I have done that myself several times successfully, the FB may still target the vehicle but the buildings seem to prevent any damage from being done. Now I generally try to keep the vehicle next to a tall obstacle, like a building or hill.

A FB will usually make a recon pass first but I am not sure what use can be made of that. I have attempted driving into scattered trees and popping smoke, all for no effect. I remember vividly one scenario where my assault force of 4 PzIVs and 4 HTs, all carrying infantry, were moving down a scattered tree/road when I heard the FB pass overhead. Next turn I popped smoke and adjusted the waypoints into the scattered trees, the FB targetted the group anyways and after dropping its two bombs only 2 PzIVs were able to drive away.

Other experiences... I have seen FBs target and destroy a HT then for the next several turns repeatedly attack the same destroyed HT. Defending in one Op I had 6 trucks loosely Hiding in some scattered trees and no other forces revealed, a FB targetted one of the trucks anyways and KO'd 4 of them. In the same Op(lots of FBs in that one) I remember running an HQ across a road from Tall Pines to Tall Pines being targetted and broken in a strafing pass.

Ron

[xerxes]

Thanks for the comments.

In my testing scattered trees seemed to help a lot at avoiding FB targeting. Obviously your vehicles need to be spread out so one bomb doesn't take out multiple vehicles.

I think hiding afvs is useful so they don't try to fire at the FB and get themselves spotted.

And yes, I've seen infantry in the clear get straffed and torn up badly.

It seems like a number of scenarios with jabos don't have the German AA assets, too bad, I'd even promise not to use them as AT guns.

Question: If there's just one FB does he always approach from the same direction or is there any pattern at all?

-marc

[gredeker]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

My one thought in a scenario is to exit HTs, trucks, jeeps, etc. off the board ASAP unless you desperately need them onboard for some reason. Jabo bombs may or may not hit, but then the plane comes back and strafes! And I've seen a pair of jabos kill 8-10 HTs, etc. easy, which is an awful lot of points literally up in smoke.

So my advice is--exit those light vehicles before the Jabos arrive, if the briefing leads you to expect them. Or, if they've just bombed, run like mad for the exits with all light vehicles, preferably through scattered trees.

I wish I had thought about this in a certain tourney scenario (hint: rhymes with "Gruel at Grompaire"). I lost five HTs in that game (three of which were far behind the front lines and contributing nothing to the war effort) to strafing Jabos. My tanks, on the other hand, survived all rocket attacks.

[Kingfish]

I suggest you run your tanks along the map edge, and have them dog leg briefly off the map, then back on. The Jabo will ignore your tanks from that point on.

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by redeker:

I wish I had thought about this in a certain tourney scenario (hint: rhymes with "Gruel at Grompaire"). I lost five HTs in that game (three of which were far behind the front lines and contributing nothing to the war effort) to strafing Jabos. My tanks, on the other hand, survived all rocket attacks.

Well, as you may have guessed, it was my very similar experience in that grueling scenario that led to this advice.

BTW, don't believe Kingfish's advice--unless you're playing against me.

[Juju]

Originally posted by Kingfish:

I suggest you run your tanks along the map edge, and have them dog leg briefly off the map, then back on. The Jabo will ignore your tanks from that point on.

For shame! That's cruel advice, that is!

[109 Gustav]

Ok, serious advice here. Jabos usually do a warning pass before attacking, so listen for the sound of a plane's engine. If you have the sound turned off, you won't get any warning. (BTS fix or do somefink, I like listening to music, not tank engines). Start these countermeasures as soon as possible:

1. Dispersion. Seperate all vehicles from each other and from inf. That way one bomb or strafing run won't get a bunch of them. Seperate them as widely as possible without exposing yourself too much to enemy fire.

2. Cover. Have all inf that aren't actively fighting hide. If they are moving they will be strafing targets for sure, even if they're in tall pines. (possible bug here). You can try to move tanks next to large buildings, I think they might help absorb some blast if the bombs or rockets hit from that direction.

3. Button up all tanks and AFVs except for ones with .50 cal flexible guns. They will shoot back and can sometimes help out in driving planes away. Yes, buttoning up puts you at risk of losing the tank to an enemy tank, but it's generally safer than having the TC's head get blown away by a near miss from a bomb.

4. Pray.

[Juju]

However, the best defence against 'em is,-of course- to avoid fighting in clear weather conditions. Works everytime.