Bridge Crossings

[Slybird51]

I am working on a bridge crossing scenario. It is in testing right now, but I have a few questions to ask you guys.

It is a US attempt to take a bridge from the SS, in early 1945. Both sides have everything, except that the German side has no Air Support.

Obviously, a defending force would attempt to defend the bridge by preventing the crossing from the attacker's side of the bridge, then withdraw across the bridge when they became too hard-pressed. Does the AI have the wherewithall to conduct an organized withdrawal like that?

Also, as the withdrawing force crosses to the near side, their engineers will blow said bridge into pieces in the face of the advancing attackers. Can this even be done by AI attackers?

I appreciate any insight into this. The Battle will be posted at the Scenario Depot soon!

[WWB]

Well, no PO has handled bridge crossing operations too well, and CM's is no exception. So it is kind of inadviseable to make the scenario where the computer is supposed to attack across a bridge. But they might do a decent job of defending the bridge, if the flags were placed correctly. Probably in front of the bridge, but it can vary.

No, you cannot blow bridges in CM, except with very heavy arty.

WWB

[Panther G]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by wwb_99:

No, you cannot blow bridges in CM, except with very heavy arty.

<hr></blockquote>

Ahem. Have you ever played Russelmz's "Decision"? You plant a bunch of AT mines (not daisy-chains) on the center of an open ground square that is to become the bridge. After placing in the preview mode, go back to the map and make the bridge. The way you destroy it is to have a engineer squad run out into the middle of the bridge, find the mines, and destroy the mines (and bridge) with demo charges. Obviously the AI could not do this, but it is better that heavy arty which is not very accurate. It is hard to do under fire also.

Regards,

Ryan

[Panther G]

Oh, I almost forgot. You can blow a wood bridge with mortar/tank/gun fire in several turns, provided the blast is big enough (2 inch mortars aren't going to do much).

Regards,

Ryan

[russellmz]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Panther G:

Ahem. Have you ever played Russelmz's "Decision"? You plant a bunch of AT mines (not daisy-chains) on the center of an open ground square that is to become the bridge. After placing in the preview mode, go back to the map and make the bridge. The way you destroy it is to have a engineer squad run out into the middle of the bridge, find the mines, and destroy the mines (and bridge) with demo charges. Obviously the AI could not do this, but it is better that heavy arty which is not very accurate. It is hard to do under fire also.

Regards,

Ryan<hr></blockquote>

whoohoo, someone has played my scenario!

except one little thing: i planted anti personnel mines and had a sacrifice unit run over them revealing the mines. then the engineers start tossing demo packs to clear the mines. of course you can't have vehicles cross if you use AT mines (only ppl), or have only vehicles cross but not ppl if you use anti-personnel mines.

panzer leader has a method he prefers: put a target reference point on a bridge then give a big -ss arty FO four or five rounds. be sure to tell the human player not to use the rounds on the troops but on the bridge.

[Stoffel]

try my cross the bridge scenario,you can find it at scenario depot

I had a discussion on this with some other players and after it we came up with this battle.

maybe you see something usefull,or better find a thing worth to be changed

[SlowMotion]

My experience from designing a bridge crossing scenario is that in order to get a good defense, the defending AI needs to be shown where to put troops.

To see an example of how different such designed positions are from 'AI positions freely', see my Foggy Hills from Scenario Depot. Designed to be a difficult bridge defending battle against AI, but can be played as PBEM as well.

[Slybird51]

Thanks, all...

I was more thinking of having a good AI defense of a bridge, as I also believe that there is no AI yet that can manage a good assault across a bridge.

I will check out Foggy Hills. Look for my review there in the next 7 days or so. (I do not ghet to play much )

[Panther G]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by russellmz:

panzer leader has a method he prefers: put a target reference point on a bridge then give a big -ss arty FO four or five rounds. be sure to tell the human player not to use the rounds on the troops but on the bridge.<hr></blockquote>

I saw this in the scenario "Guns of Navarone." However, when I tried to do it, the rounds were very inaccurate and killed some of my own troops without harming the bridge. I think your method is better.

Regards,

Ryan

[WWB]

Ok, I stand corrected, there are other methods. Still, blowing bridges is not supported by the game engine wihtout making some extra efforts.

WWB

[russellmz]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Panther G:

I saw this in the scenario "Guns of Navarone." However, when I tried to do it, the rounds were very inaccurate and killed some of my own troops without harming the bridge. I think your method is better.

Regards,

Ryan<hr></blockquote>

yep, that was panzer leader's scenario. i saw a bridge taken out that but i wan't sure if it was my big-ss artillery or the comp's.

hey stoffel, i played your cross the bridge scenario. a bit of fun , and a bit of work

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first the fun parts:

o the map was very pretty. i really like the osland and multiple bridges. plus it was obvious you put a lot of thought into the lines of sight from the setup zone to the island

o there were a few cute moments i had in the game, like when my jumbo was gun damaged so i had it run over the gun that damaged it, destroying the gun. also, i got a panzer iv immobilized on a bridge but it took out my tank. so i carefully moved my tank into position so it had los on the bridge but not the tank. then i destroyed the bridge, and the panzer iv was destroyed as well.

(http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=022720)

o i had fun with the paratroopers, since they caught just about all the units trying to escape.

now the not so fun part, the critique:

- the first couple german reinforcements popped up in the MIDDLE of my troops. that was really annoying. why were they dumped onto the setup zone? after the first two, i just put some guard units in the forest nearby and had them cut up the new guys coming in.

- one fewer reinforcements for the germans please. i thought the last wave of german reinforcements were kinda overkill since they couldn't stop my last allied reinforcements.

- not really a criticism, but is it possible to pull off an allied vitory by just concentrating the arty onto the bridge leading to the exit and blowing it?

[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: russellmz ]</p>

[sturner]

Actually, if you are doing a bridge defense, you should fight about a mile or so from the bridge. If you are engaged in combat around the bridge, then you are no longer defending the bridge, you are engaged in a withdrawal across the bridge before it is blown.

[Stoffel]

Hi Russel

thanks for playing it

thanks for taking the time to review it

I will have a look into it and will bring in some changes with the reinforcements