camp Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 OK. First things first - I think it is cool that a green crew will sometimes bail from a tank that gets it's track shot off. Let me explain. I am in the middle of an operation (won't say which). I get re-enforced by 3 KV2 heavy tanks (very heavy). In fact, on paper there is nothing my opponent can do about them (no chance to kill even from the rear). So, I roll these monsters up onto a hill after having killed a couple of light tanks to engage a group of PzIII's. Exchange of fire and wham... my track gets shot off on one tanks - instantly the crew of 6 begin bailing out. Now - cool, I think in a sad way, the crew got scared and are otherwise leaving there no immobile bunker. Next turn. Wham. same thing. A crew bails the instant their track gets shot off. My question is am I just the recipient of some rather bad luck? That is to say that it is not automatic that when a tank get turned immobile and the crew is green that they will always bail? Grumble... grumble... I love this game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 There has been some discussion on this before, and BTS has promised to tweak it a bit in the patch. But by and large crews in immobile tanks will generally take a hike when they are being shot at (rather than wait for the inevitable ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camp Posted October 22, 2002 Author Share Posted October 22, 2002 wow. cool - still, in the case of the heavy russian tanks early in the war I would hazard a guess that I would rather stay inside that tank and keep firing than risk it outside. Thanks though, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 yah it must be automatic. i've had the same luck with conscript or green crews. in 1 qb that i played, the tanks were very close to the german infantry and bailed just in time to get shot to pieces. oh well, like i said before, casualties are what the russians are good at. crunch all you want, we'll make more! lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 An immobile tank with AP flying around is a steel coffin. I think it is perfectly natural to abandon ship in this circumstance and simulates what happens in Real Life. I was playing a game yesterday where I had a green T60 (20mm gun) shooting at a PzKfw III several hundred meters away. The T60 bounced several shells of the panzer and went from fine morale to shaken to panicked when the crew realized that the shells were having no affect. The panzer did not even shoot in the T60's direction! :eek: [ October 22, 2002, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Keith ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camp Posted October 22, 2002 Author Share Posted October 22, 2002 Scratch that - all 3 tanks abandoned the instant that they were imobilized. Keith, I agree with you in part. But I must say if I am in the KV2 heavy tank in 1941 and I know that the Germans do not have one single tank that could kill it with as much AP firing at the front (from over 500m). Abandoning would not be my first instinct. Especially to get out of a tank that is still very capable of returning fire into an area where those same AP rounds can make mince meat out of me. That is not to say that I don't think that green or conscript troops should never abandon just because they get immobolized - just that I don't think it should happen automatically every time. love this game... Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 As an anecdotal data point, I played a CMBO game not long ago in which a 20mm flack gun caused a reg Churchie crew to bail. Took out a tread, then the gun and then pelted it with 20mm for about 3 turns... and then the crew bailed. I guess they didn't like the plinking. [ October 22, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Compassion ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdavis Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Originally posted by camp: But I must say if I am in the KV2 heavy tank in 1941 and I know that the Germans do not have one single tank that could kill it with as much AP firing at the front (from over 500m). They are green crews. They don't know that. Those ignorant Russian peasants probably think the Germans have lasers. Seriously though, I don't think a green crew would wait around to find out if their armor is really as impenetrable as they've been told it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Each battle takes place in a vacuum, so it looks like the crews just do stupid things. But, from the green crew's perspective, bailing out may make sense. Bail out, hide until the battle is over, if the tank is OK -- go try and fix it, if the tank is blown up -- tell your buddies how lucky you were to get out alive. Maybe the soldiers in CMBB look to the long term even when their commanders don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I'd just like to add that crew of any experience will eventually bail out of tank, even if it's shot at with guns that lack potential penetration capability. It's painful to even think of the cacophony that the constant shell ricochets create in the tank's crew compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Keep those sucker's hull-down. Then you won't get immobilized. After all the turret is as large as a cottage so that shouldn't be a problem hehe. Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggles Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Yeah, prompted by your post I tried a QB with 6 KV-2s against Axis whatever in October 1941. Two of the KV-2s were taken out by a PSW222 (!) forcing the crew to bail. Alright, my tactics were very much "stick your chin and let them punch it". Guess this proves that it's not so much übertanks that are important, as übercrews and übertactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I'm still trying to adjust to the challenger's role with the early-war Axis tin cans... It usually takes 2-on-1 flanking tactics to knock out a KV-1 with early Stug's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeo Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 It may be interesting to quote a passage from one of S. Zaloga books on the KV heavy tank, it's regarding an engagement near Borisov in 1941: "[...] the T-34 was flanked and a carefully placed shot blew away a track link, disabling it. The crew leapt from the relative secutity of their armour, and were mowed down by MG fire. The KV-2 was repeadetly struck but not damaged by the German tank fire, but under the frightening pounding of the PzKpfw IV's rounds the crew panicked and bailed out only to suffer the same fate." In fact this is corroborated by General Eremenko comments: "Often our tanks went out of action due to hesitant and unsure conduct of the crews, rather than direct hits. For this reason we subsequently manned the KV tanks with hand-picked crews." Regards, Amedeo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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