Cpt.Kloss Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Originally posted by Bastables: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cpt.Kloss: qb]-------------------------------------------- -> Bastables 1)Panther's turret rotation was dependend upon engine work- 2500 rpm -17 seconds, 1000rpm - 92 seconds! 2)Sherman was good enough, for a very long time better tank was not designed because - with air superiority - there was no good sufficient reason to. 3)War is not won by inflicting casualties, but by achieving operational objectives. 4)Towards the end of the war German economy was more and more devasted, lack of metals and fuel was crippling German forces.Contrary for US -one Sherman destroyed was a reason to build several new ones. While german economy was ruined, US economy contributed greatly from the war. regards</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Determinant Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Originally posted by Bastables: Yes besides unifying Germany, turning it into a continental power. Allowing a country the size of texas to inflict pretty respectable casualties and bloody noses on much larger enemies. Infecting the Western armies with Prussian concepts and organisational thinking it has been pretty worthless and a footnote to history really..... Wasn't it the collapse of the Soviet Union in the face of NATO unity that unified Germany? Germans have been the most direct and immediate victims of their own offensive militarist doctrines. They used to be like those punchy little guys who keep picking fights in bars and ending up on their arses... Infecting Western Armies with Prussian concepts? Tee hee hee. Have you ever met any Western Armies? A staff college does not a kriegsacademie make. But most importantly: If all things Prussian are the acme of military achievement then how come I can't find Prussia on a map of Europe? Merry Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Originally posted by Cpt.Kloss: 1. Why then discussing combat effectiveness you take into account max rotation speed? 2.And by operational means that was not still seroius enough - and that is a reason for american approach. 3. And how in WW2 biggest loses were inflicted? By operational maneuver (encirclement for example), not tactical fight. From operational point of view it was much more important whether you had fast medium tanks or not, particular type being secondary issue. 4. I am not sure whether I understand, could you please elaborate more on this. You do not want to say german economy was in a good shape? regards[/QB]1.For the same reason that you do not discuss slowest turret rotation times for the Sherman. Another way of looking at it is that we do not prefix slowest possible speeds before stalling in discussions of top speeds for AFVs. 2. It was not? Yet there are no American tanks in the exploitation class today nor a separate tank destroyer arm. American pre war doctrine was shown to be lacking it has been changed i.e. the Abrahams tank a veh so specialised in anti tank work it does not even fire HE shells. 3 Interesting, Kursk failed German strategic envelopment German Casualties 56,827 Soviet casualties 177,847 White Russia successful Soviet Strategic envelopment German Casualties 399,096 Soviet Casualties 770,888 From the Germans point of view the latter was all-tactical, successful Soviet strategic envelopment meant that the Germans for the most part reacted tactically. 4. "I am not sure whether I understand": Exactly why I ask you to go back and read what German industry was able to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Originally posted by Determinant: Wasn't it the collapse of the Soviet Union in the face of NATO unity that unified Germany? Germans have been the most direct and immediate victims of their own offensive militarist doctrines. They used to be like those punchy little guys who keep picking fights in bars and ending up on their arses... Infecting Western Armies with Prussian concepts? Tee hee hee. Have you ever met any Western Armies? A staff college does not a kriegsacademie make. But most importantly: If all things Prussian are the acme of military achievement then how come I can't find Prussia on a map of Europe? Merry Christmas.[/QB]Sure is if European History begins on the inception of NATO. No I have not met any European armies. But my experience with the Australian, New Zealand and USA armies on operations and traning do indicate something deeper than Nazi/Prussian fetishism exhibited by using the german word ‘Halt’ on Parades and S3 and S2 officers consuming vast quantities of books with disturbing Swastika covers. Yes, yes, you have me there. Because we all know German attempts to cross their borders and cause mayhem in Europe have been rebuffed by the Justice league. Those silly Germans did they never learn? (BTS give the Soviets Superman and Martian man hunter as a quick fix in the next patch. You can add the other members of JL later. PS what about the Power Puff girls?). Because it ate “Germany” starting with Holzmann inheriting the Brandenberg throne and due to the fascination those silly “Germans” had for the whole Holy German empire medieval construct, they called it Germany. You know why they don’t call Britain, England or Indonesia, Sunda or Spain as Castile or Turkey the Ottomans, Karmans, etc. Can't have a Merry Christmas mate, Dad and Mum are Muslims as are my brother, sister and I. I'm currently enjoying the stress bounty of my Family, being at a Family gathering, where the rest of Dad Family are Anglican, Magic! [ December 25, 2002, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Bastables ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts