Order dilemma

[Tigrii]

The situation was this: My infantry was being held up by a "Gun?", so I brought up the only avaliable AFV, a Hummel, to deal with it. It was just behind a hill, which was the only LOS obstacle btwn it and the gun. I wanted a hull-down firing position, since a Hummel can't even stop an ATR. So I gave it a "Seek Hull-Down" order to the gun's position. It found the hull down spot and stopped. It didn't see the gun before the gun saw it and got toasted. I then brought up my second Hummel, which had just been released from its little duel at the other side of the board, to try again. This time I used hunt. It hunted forward but didn't see the gun, stop and engage until it was no longer Hull-Down. The gun toasted this one, too. What order should I use for this type of situation? I wish that there was some order that combined seek hull-down and hunt.

[-Havermeyer-]

Smoke.

[Tarquelne]

Finding the right movement order might not be the right way to solve your dilemma. Maybe you need a different tactic.

Using a mortar is a completely different tactic, but it's also also very popular. And, as mentioned above, Smoke is good. Use it to maneuver whatever you want into better position vrs. the gun.

I guess it's just that asking a Hummel to duel with a Gun within that Gun's effective range is playing the game by the Gun's rules.

But to get back to using that Hummel against the gun:

Without looking at your exact situation I don't know if this would be practical or not, but I'd consider trying Area Fire from the Hummel near the Gun. A 150mm shell doesn't need be particularly accurate vrs. a mere Gun. Seek Hull Down to a point that'll put your Hummel just out of sight of the Gun and fire.

Also (with the same caveat with regard to the map) backing WAY off is generally a good idea. Your Hummel is probably better at long range than the Gun. (Optics, doesn't need a direct hit for a kill.)

It didn't see the gun before the gun saw it and got toasted.

That's pretty likely no matter what you do if your Hummel is at all near where the Gun is pointed.

If you really must use a direct, relatively close-range shot from the Hummel then Shoot-and-Scoot might be best. Get into position fast, fire, get out fast in case you missed. (The Hummel has more margin for error than the Gun.) You might not get the optimal Hull down position, but you'll move in (and OUT) faster.

And don't forget to apply a narrow cover arc. It'll focus the Hummul's attention where you need it.

Did you try using the infantry to provide covering fire for the Hummel? Even if they can't KO the gun they might be able to Pin it long enough to keep the Hummel safe. Even if the Inf. takes some losses from the Gun they'd probably be much less costly than the loss of the Hummel. And if the Gun is shooting at the Inf. it's not shooting at the Hummel...

Try the Tips and Tricks forum, too.

[ December 07, 2002, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Tarqulene ]

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by Tigrii:

I then brought up my second Hummel, which had just been released from its little duel at the other side of the board, to try again.

That is the difference between what I would have done, fwiw. "Gun?" to me translates as "serious problem"- I don't play around with those turkeys. Either hazard free mortar fire, sharpshooter fire (see your other thread!), or arty and wait, or infantry approaching through sane cover, or massive local superiority. MassiveLS means as much mass as you can muster; bringing half-hearted threats to bear one at a time will probably get you what you got- losing half-hearted threats, one at a time.

I would have waited for that other Hummel to be free, or brought him over anyway, to bring two Hs at once to bear, (assuming you didn't have other nice choices). FWIW,

Eden

[Andrew H.]

Tarq is pretty much right on with his advice - don't use an AFV to take out a gun: use mortars or arty. Guns are particularly dangerous to AFVs, and if they are thin skinned, they are triply dangerous.

Often guns are hidden in trees, so the airburst factor tends to make indirect fire weapons more effective than direct fire, too.

If you don't have available arty or smoke, you can try this - find a place from which your hummels have LOS to an area close to the gun, but don't have LOS to the gun. Area fire that location, and random spread will mean that a stray Hummel round will probably land near the gun, knocking it out. You have to be careful doing this, though, because if you are wrong and the gun has LOS, you will lose the Hummel. You will also lose the Hummel if there is another, hidden, gun with LOS to the Hummel. But sometimes this tactic works.