2-man Turrets: Bug, or Feature?

[von Lucke]

I don't mean the turrets themselves, obviously, but there is something about the target acquisition and spotting abilities (or lack therof) that seems more problematic then it should be.

Typically, any vehicle with a 2-man turret has to button-up in order to fire. Unfortunately, this has a tendency to restrict the TC's ability to spot targets. So what usually happens is that the vehicle will get off one or two rounds, and then "forget" what it was shooting at. Doesn't seem to matter whether the target is in plain sight to other units either. Next turn, said vehicle is usually still buttoned, and showing no interest in re-targeting.

Now I know that the AI has been reprogramed to make armor less "observant" when buttoned, and I also know that it has a very limited memory, but this whole sequence of spot enemy, button-up, shoot, loose interest, could use a little tweeking.

Oh, and on similar lines, why does the 251/1 have to button-up now to use it's MG? I was under the impression that it's MG could be fired while buttoned --- not that it was a requirement.

[Redwolf]

Yes.

Obviously, even when changing its status to butonned up a tank should only very occasionally lose visual contact with an already identified, much less an currently engaged target.

CMBB seems to reapply the mechanism for new spotting every time it may shoot. Maybe CMBB does not really have different mechanisms for new spotting and keeping track, but that would be pretty high on my wishlist to fix.

Those idle T-34 are irritating.

[ October 04, 2002, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[MikeyD]

Funny, I haven't spotted your problem, at least to the degree you speak of.

On the Betas people were often complaining about how TOO aware buttoned T34s were! You've gotta understand the EXTREME disadvantage a buttoned T34 had. Oftentimes drivers would overrun antitank weapons because the turret crew was basically blind and the driver was the only one who could actually see the threat. There was a real reason why the Germans went to the time and expense of fitting those commanders cupolas to their tanks.

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Yes.

Obviously, even when changing its status to butonned up a tank should only very occasionally lose visual contact with an already identified, much less an currently engaged target.

CMBB seems to reapply the mechanism for new spotting every time it may shoot. Maybe CMBB does not really have different mechanisms for new spotting and keeping track, but that would be pretty high on my wishlist to fix.

Those idle T-34 are irritating.

I agree, you probably should lose contact unless the target moves or blows smoke.

What don't you like about the idling T-34's...is it the engine sound (while idling)?

[gunnersman]

I had a problem on the "Approach to Sevastopal", where my Flak 36 was targeting an infantry unit when it came under fire from an enemy tank 1000m + and the 88 still fired at the infantry. Is this simulated fixation of the spotter spotting rounds? There is another instance in the same game where the 88 is idle and is being shot at by enemy armor at around the same range as stated above but is oblivious to it until I force it to target the armor in the next turn. :confused:

WTF?

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Obviously, even when changing its status to butonned up a tank should only very occasionally lose visual contact with an already identified, much less an currently engaged target.

Actually every time the TC goes from unbuttoned to buttoned up he loses visual contact, and he has to reaquire it through a scope with a very narrow field of vision. That may not seem like a big deal, but it is especially if the TC has to use a fixed sight coaxial to the gun :eek:

It is only when you fully understand the disadvantadges of the traditional 2-man turret that you realize that those Gemans with their cupola's and dedicated gunners were really just a bunch of gamey buggers

[tabpub]

but a pz II with a 20mm AC should not have to have the commander button up. At least for the first few shots...then he may have to assist in reloading...

[von Lucke]

Originally posted by Foxbat:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by redwolf:

Obviously, even when changing its status to butonned up a tank should only very occasionally lose visual contact with an already identified, much less an currently engaged target.

Actually every time the TC goes from unbuttoned to buttoned up he loses visual contact, and he has to reaquire it through a scope with a very narrow field of vision. That may not seem like a big deal, but it is especially if the TC has to use a fixed sight coaxial to the gun.

It is only when you fully understand the disadvantadges of the traditional 2-man turret that you realize that those Gemans with their cupola's and dedicated gunners were really just a bunch of gamey buggers.</font>

[Redwolf]

It is ridiculous to assume that a tank commander who spotted a target (a big one like a squad or a vehicle) is incapable of getting vision to the same target when he dives down into the turret. Even when it is moving, and CMBB does it for standing targets.

He knows exactly what he is looking for, and where, and you can find that reasonably easy. Not 100% but 99% or so, especially when the commander is not a complete idiot.

[ October 05, 2002, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]