What the hell good is the Archer

[Screamineagle]

Today, in a random TCP/IP I received an Archer.

How the hell do you employ the Archer? It can't hunt, the gun is facing the wrong way. I have no experience with this weapon. Any input guys?

I can think of no sadder words to a young replacement tank crewman upon arriving at the front. "Congratulations son, you have been assigned to an Archer unit." Hmmm

[gredeker]

Just think of it as a mobile AT gun and use it as such. Move it around from one ambush position to another, and it is good at getting out of there quickly due to the fact that you're already pointed the right direction for the getaway.

On the attack, you're pretty much out of luck. On the defense, it can work.

[Warmaker]

There's less than a handful of guys here that actually like that "thing." More power to them too.

[Cogust]

I had some initial troubles with the Archers myself, but after losing a couple due to stupidity I learned to use them. You have to use a fair amount of eye balling to get the Archer into a hull down position (no hunt command to help you), but it is really effective when used in hull down ambush positions and it is very quick to reposition after the first couple of shots. It has a very powerful gun and a low profile and can take on most of the German übertanks with a fair chance of success and it's a real bargain with it's 99 points and I have had several successes with them after the intial mistakes.

One important thing is to remember that you have to rotate FROM the intended target and to towards it as the gun is pointing the wrong way.

[Screamineagle]

Thanks Cogust. Although I have some doubts, I will try to work with itin a Sceanrio against the AI. Just seem's like a poorly designed weapon.

[Fred]

well,

the british needed some kind of a self-propelled AT-unit, as the germans had a lot of success with their turretless tank destroyers.

So they mounted the impressive 17 pdr on a Mk III Valentine chassis. Problem was, this was top-heavy, and so they attached the gun rear-facing.

After all it gave some mobility to the bulky 17 pdr gun.

Use it only in ambush, fire 2 or three shots and then speed away to the next position; the vehicle already faces the excape route

Fred

[gredeker]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Screamineagle:

Thanks Cogust. Although I have some doubts, I will try to work with itin a Sceanrio against the AI. Just seem's like a poorly designed weapon.<hr></blockquote>

And that's the beautiful thing about CMBO. The weapons and vehicles are modeled pretty accurately, leaving you with the same conundrums that a real life commander did.

"What do I do with all these [bleeping] 50mm mortars?"

"You mean that both our gun and our armor are inferior to the enemy's???"

"Those damn Wasps are killing my troops before I can get a shot off!!!"

"Two Jagdtigers on the far ridge... OH SH*T!!!"

"What idiot decided to mount this gun backwards on this tank chassis?!?"

[PiggDogg]

Question:

With an Archer (or for that matter, the M4A1 US 81 mm mortar halftrack whose gun/tube is also rear facing), when you order it to rotate, what faces in the direction of the ordered rotation? Does the rearward facing gun face in the ordered direction or does the driver/front face in the ordered direction? :confused: :confused:

Also, if one gives such units a hunt order (if they accept such orders & strangely, the M4A1 does accept a hunt order) do they back toward the hunt or do they go foward toward the hunt. :confused:

Duh?

Cheers, Richard :cool:

[Cogust]

PiggDogg,

The Archer can hunt, but then it drives forward (with the gun pointing backwards as always) and stops to rotate when a target approaches. Even a Tiger can swing their gun faster than an Archer.

If you rotate an Archers towards a suspected enemy tank position (or bore sighting it on some obvious terrain feature), the clever TC will turn his front to face in the requested direction and as the gun is still facing the opposite direction you end up in a not-so-quick draw contest when the enemy approaches (been there, done that).

[Screamineagle]

Actually, it has no hunt command, you can only move. Once it sees a target, it has to turn to the target, it takes about 15 seconds to do a 180° turn. That is death in combat.

[Cameroon]

Hell, drive it in reverse then

Seriously, while I wouldn't drive around everywhere in reverse, it might make sense to approach sites of possible attack in a "ready" posture. Of course, this is probably taking advantage of absolute spotting which might be considered gamey by some. *shrug*

[jwxspoon]

Hey that's how I use the 37mm German flak wagon - I drive it forward until I get close to the enemy, and then I back it into combat.

[Olle Petersson]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cameroon:

Hell, drive it in reverse then <hr></blockquote>Yes, that's exactly how to advance with them.

"Hunt" has to be done with a series of short reverse commands towards the enemy. (Short because it will only stop to fire at a node, and not in the stretch between.)

It's great fun to watch the AI try to handle these beasts...

Cheers

Olle

[PiggDogg]

Cogust & Guys,

Thanks for the information on the Archers. One thing for sure, I doubt if I would ever buy one in a human choose troops game.

Although in one computer choose troops game with a line of sight of about 80 meters, I was given two Archers. At 80 meters, one Archer knocked out a Panther that was unfortunate enough to stumble forward. I did win that game.

Cheers, Richard

[109 Gustav]

I think I heard a report somewhere that cromwell crews would also back their tanks into action. The reason for this was that the engine would give the crew some protection, and it would be facing the right way if they encountered uberarmor.

[Kallimakhos]

I actually did some testing to find out which allied tank can face up Hetzers in flat open map considering their buy value: line up and shoot out. That one tank is Archer. If you have a open flat map, use your poins for them, they are best point/value against any axis tanks in these circumstances. If any hills, woods, avoid them.

[Louie the Toad]

Recently knocked out an Archer with 20mm Flak.

Around 700 or 800m away. Made the Archer crew button, keep their heads down and finally bail.

AAA Toad

[Ex Bellator]

Hehe the old Archer keeps rearing it's backwards head just lately. Just to add more ammunition for the detractors, I've just read about them in Ian Hoggs 'Tank Killers'.

Apparently the Valentine chassis was very small and the 17pdr way too big resulting in incredibly cramped crew positions, so when it had reversed into position the driver would have to leap out of the vehicle. If he didn't he would be decapitated by the recoil from the 17-pdr! Imagine how much more you'd hate it if that was modelled into CMBO as well.

The crews liked them despite all the quirks mainly because of it's small size. Being small enabled it to get into ambush positions and stay hidden for a couple of shots, then scoot. Unfortunately you can't do this in CMBO.

Ian Hogg says it was more sucessful than other types of UK Tank Destroyer in terms of kills, I guess it was phased out when 17pdrs or better guns became more common on sensible vehicles.

[mowers]

Despite the difficulties in getting them to hunt and the occasionally muck up with the rotate command, I have found them to be very good. They don’t really cost that much and if you are the Brits on the offensive it means that you always have the firepower to destroy the heavier German tanks. I’ve had some good successes against Hetzer’s at ranges of 700m. At the longer ranges other players can’t really see what it is and often try to take it on in a long distance artillery battle; I don’t normally lose when employing this tactic.

[Moriarty]

None really, but rumor has it Pawbroon soon will be releasing a nifty mod of it. It'll look so much nice when it brews up.

[Deadly Dave]

well you could use it like this........ on rolling country or hills at set up phase place the tank backwards in a position that has good line of sight, then move into cover on the protected side of the hill keeping a mental note of where the LOS position is. send an infantry recon forward and lie in wait until enemy appears. upon enemy moving into LOS reverse archer up the hill to artificial hunt position. Use two at a time side by side if poss.

Otherwise if you cant do this at set up phase use a sharpshooter or sim.( Hiding) on crest of hill to indicate edge of LOS when enemy spotted, reverse to position -FIRE

[Brian]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Screamineagle:

Today, in a random TCP/IP I received an Archer.

How the hell do you employ the Archer? It can't hunt, the gun is facing the wrong way. I have no experience with this weapon. Any input guys?

I can think of no sadder words to a young replacement tank crewman upon arriving at the front. "Congratulations son, you have been assigned to an Archer unit." Hmmm<hr></blockquote>

Only problem is that the Archer wasn't a tank, nor was it operated by Royal Armoured Corps troops, it was a Royal Artillery vehicle. It was actually very popular with the RA and lasted in British service well into the mid-1950's and in foreign (primarily Arab) service into the early 1960's.

It was mobile, it was small and it was very reliable. Its rearward facing gun wasn't seen as a severe disadvantage, although its cramped space was.