Berkut Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 -------possible spoilers------------------ I have not had time to play through all the scenarios in the Stalingrad pack and have just started with the first. Into the void features an attempt to secure vital highground and an equally vital crossing over a river. A vast portion of the terrain is very open and any attempt to cross it will be observed from the hilltop. Also of concern is a village near a dry riverbed. Your initial force consists of a recce unit of 6 PZII's and a recce platoon. for artillery you have a 81mm FOO. Stukas are roaming around to take out any targets of opportunity. Now I have played...or should I say started to play this on 6 occasions now. Each time I played saw 50-70% of the recce force being knocked out by two 47mm AT guns within 5 turns. Which I'm sure many would agree is some very accurate shooting at ranges in excess of 700 mtrs. I am playing with the scenario defaults and full fog of war. Has anyone here found similar problems with these scenarios or been able to beat the AT guns without significant losses to their force? How does it handle when played as a pbem? [ December 23, 2002, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Berkut ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Hey Berkut -- would you mind putting some notice of SPOILERS at the top of threads like that? Something like -- SPOILERS!! . . . . . . . . . . . . so people won't open the thread, and learn information about a scenario that destroys the fog of war? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkut Posted December 23, 2002 Author Share Posted December 23, 2002 Originally posted by MrSpkr: Hey Berkut -- would you mind putting some notice of SPOILERS at the top of threads like that? Something like -- SPOILERS!! . . . . . . . . . . . . so people won't open the thread, and learn information about a scenario that destroys the fog of war? SteveI hardly think it's worth tagging with the heading spoiler. I give no positions of the guns or solutions to the scenario itself. Information about any other forces present because I never got that far. But heyho you live and learn;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 You gave the entire order of battle! How is that not a spoiler? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Ouch, not good. Berkut, please edit your first post and remove the spoiler info. If you would like to discuss this, and other SP scenarios in detail, then I would ask that you do it here: Stalingrad Pack AAR thread Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkut Posted December 23, 2002 Author Share Posted December 23, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: You gave the entire order of battle! How is that not a spoiler? Thanks.The entire order of battle Michael? I gave a run down of the initial force that anyone would see if they opened the scenario themselves. I have not commented on other forces for the axis side nor have I given any comment on what the russians have, because as stated in my original post I don't know what they are Had I done so, then I would be guilty of giving away the entire order of battle What I felt i had written was a description of the mission and your intial force, the terrain to be crossed and the presence of two very accurate AT-guns. I did not comment on precise locations, enemy infantry or armour support(if any) because in my initial post I stated I did not get far enough to discover what they were. I gave no solutions, or any information that I deem to be spoilers about the scenario. I thought the post was safe. clearly to some here it was not. I am not going to get into any semantic arguments and will direct my queries to the appropiate thread. Kingfish: The damage is done and see no point in editing the post. If I had admin rights I would delete from the board or lock it, but thats not my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Berkut, You do not have to be a board admin to edit your first post. If it's asking too much to remove the info then can you at least add a spoiler warning. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Kloss Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Originally posted by Berkut: -------possible spoilers------------------ I have not had time to play through all the scenarios in the Stalingrad pack and have just started with the first. Into the void features an attempt to secure vital highground and an equally vital crossing over a river. A vast portion of the terrain is very open and any attempt to cross it will be observed from the hilltop. Also of concern is a village near a dry riverbed. Your initial force consists of a recce unit of 6 PZII's and a recce platoon. for artillery you have a 81mm FOO. Stukas are roaming around to take out any targets of opportunity. Now I have played...or should I say started to play this on 6 occasions now. Each time I played saw 50-70% of the recce force being knocked out by two 47mm AT guns within 5 turns. Which I'm sure many would agree is some very accurate shooting at ranges in excess of 700 mtrs. I am playing with the scenario defaults and full fog of war. Has anyone here found similar problems with these scenarios or been able to beat the AT guns without significant losses to their force? How does it handle when played as a pbem?---------------------------------------------- SPOILERS! The best recon you can make in this scenario is no recon.Just wait for PzIIIs. This game could start on turn 6, with some german wrecks added and commentary in briefing "some of our recon forces were ambushed, probably by AT units at the edge of forest". Riverbed also gives you no protection (I do not know whether it is exactly like author intended), because visually your AVF are covered, in term of game engine - exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 SPOILERS @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 1) I will make no claims as to the balance of this battle. It is a tough one for the germans, but many have found it rewarding to play and it is winnable. If played 2 player, I would advise making the soviets take a 25% force cut. 2) There is cover out there. That forest is very handy. One biggie--never, ever stand still in the open. You can even find cover in parts of the balka, and you can definitely use it to lower your profile. In addition, those recon units dying does not hurt too much--they need not exit for points and are really but a drop in the proverbial bucket in the grand scheme. 3) Why did I set it up so your recon gets ambushed first then the fight starts? Because some players like to have control of the full battle. I have done many things where you start in media res too, but felt a bit different about this one. I think it works pretty well, at least some other players have said so and the testers liked it alot. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Man, I hate for this to come off sounding like a smarta$$, but this thread belongs in the "Scenario Talk" forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassner.1 Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 ******************SPOILERS****************** * * * * * * * * * * * Well, I have to say that this scenario is eminently winnable as the German player, although it can be close. As the German player I won a tactical victory against a very good defending opponent. The key is time and force management. I began by dropping smoke from my 81mm mortar (it came in on turn 3 – I did *not* use pre-planned) in order to cover *all* my recon elements, minus 3 Pzkpfw IIs, which made a dash for the light woods on the extreme left flank. As soon as they were across the open and into the light woods (about hundred meters in) I began moving them SLOWELY to the right and up towards the victory location on top of the hill. In this way, nobody could shoot at them until the range was so close that I could deliver effective firepower as well as bring in 81mm OB mortar support if necessary. I did send three Pzkpfw IIs to over-watch the small farm with the victory flag on the left flank. Then once the real meat of my attacking forces came in I began to assemble them behind the lip of the steppe (for protection). Once I had enough armor assembled (Pzkpfw IIIs and IVs) and my recon elements were approaching the flag on top of the hill through the light woods, I launched my armor assault directly upon the flag on top of the hill. Once they had covered about ½ the distance to the hill I launched the infantry in halftracks with a smoke screen to protect them most of the way. Some of the infantry made for the small farm on the right flank as well. To make a long story short I carried both positions with light losses. I also managed to send some Pzkpfw III elements through the light woods along the left flank and caught his T-34s on the reverse slope in a pincer, eliminating them. While I did take light to moderate casualties doing this, I had enough left-over for the victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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