flammenwerfer Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Situation- Beginning of turn romanian inf charges across open terrain into woods to distract the defending armor. Turans pivot and lock on to inf as rom. tanks(pziv) hunt up the hill... Outcome- 4 knocked out Turans and 1 ko'ed Rom Tank Gamey or smart tactics? [ October 27, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Flammenwerfer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PondScum Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Originally posted by Flammenwerfer: Gamey or smart tactics?[/QB]Or lack of cover arcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 I'd seriously enjoy a "hunt armor" command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabpub Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 It's called "hunt with a cover armor arc".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 LT.- "Ok, you guys run across that OPEN field and draw the fire of those four AFV's". Privates- "Whaaaaaat? Sgt.- "Shoot the LT boys, there is plenty more where he came from". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 not gamey. good tactic. makes you realize what the covered arcs are for. lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaTyR Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Woohoo, somebody has "discovered" the exact same "tactic" that drove me away from playing the Steel Panthers series. This means some more micromanaging with covered arcs, which we luckily have in CMBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Good tactic. Covered arcs will stop it but woudl sending out a zook or shrek be gamey..neither is a squad with molatovs. If your infantry can get that close then the bastard deserves to die..says I..har har. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busboy Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Good tactic. The infantry in real life probably would have a ****fit if they knew, but good soldiers follow orders. And, well, its a real tactic. Its a cost-benefit thing...is sacrificing these men going to save more in the long run? In real war its harder, but the choices are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Pa Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Looks like a near-identical encounter to one I had in the CENSORED:SPOILER (there you go, SM ) scenario. The Romanian tanks still took out all 4 Turans plus an AT gun even though I'd carefully ordered the Turans to go "hull-down" & given the AT gun a good arc to cover (it did manage to get the armoured car) - there was no infantry diversion going on. No damage at all to Romanian tanks, mainly due to shells shattering on impact. [ October 29, 2002, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Dark Pa ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Ok, the combination of hunt and cover armor arc might work... I just don't like it that the cover arc cannot be made relative to the tank's facing. Can lead to pretty dirty situations in chaotic situations, especially when the arc can span only 180 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabpub Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: Ok, the combination of hunt and cover armor arc might work... I just don't like it that the cover arc cannot be made relative to the tank's facing. Can lead to pretty dirty situations in chaotic situations, especially when the arc can span only 180 degrees.Well, I think that it is fine now. If I want the right side covered, I give max arc to the right. Then the right side is covered no matter how I move. In a chaotic situation( which should be avoided, BTW) why have the arc on? Then you would want the tank to engage anything and any thing. I would presume by chaotic that you would mean "tight" quarters. There, anything can hurt you.....boo! :eek: [ October 28, 2002, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: tabpub ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Originally posted by zukkov: not gamey. good tactic. makes you realize what the covered arcs are for. lol...Just a minute, my understanding of armor cover arcs is that they tell the unit where to NOT shoot (outside the arc), not where to shoot. So if I put an armor cover arc on a tank, the tank will shoot only at other tanks that are within this arc, and it will not shoot at infantry at all. That is what I understood from the manual. Is this wrong? Can you have a separate cover arc for infantry and armor? If so, how do you tell a tank not to shoot at infantry at all? Do you put the infantry arc where you are sure that there are no infantry? Can someone please clarify? Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Originally posted by tabpub: Well, I think that it is fine now. If I want the right side covered, I give max arc to the right. Then the right side is covered no matter how I move. In a chaotic situation( which should be avoided, BTW) why have the arc on? Then you would want the tank to engage anything and any thing. I would presume by chaotic that you would mean "tight" quarters. There, anything can hurt you.....boo! :eek: I meant a terrain where there's a lot of thinly spread buildings, patches of forest, and lots of hills: place where LOS is usually highly fragmented... An opponent might maneuver a fast tank to my rear/flank within a single turn. If the cover armor-arc could span the whole 360 degrees, then this wouldn't be a problem. But I'd just like a simple on/off "tank hunter" command for AFV's, so that the vehicle would disregard all infantry unless they are posing a direct threat to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Just a minute, my understanding of armor cover arcs is that they tell the unit where to NOT shoot (outside the arc), not where to shoot. So if I put an armor cover arc on a tank, the tank will shoot only at other tanks that are within this arc, and it will not shoot at infantry at all. That is what I understood from the manual. Is this wrong? Can you have a separate cover arc for infantry and armor? If so, how do you tell a tank not to shoot at infantry at all? Do you put the infantry arc where you are sure that there are no infantry? Can someone please clarify? Henri, There are two types of covered arcs.. armor and general covered arcs. The hotkeys are C for the general arc, and V for the armor arc... The arc does two things, it tells the unit to only engage that type of unit (armor if V or anything if C) when it enters the arc... so it also works as the ambush command. Be careful though.. because there is no "Oh sh*t!" command when an enemy unit is outside this arc... you are SOL if this happens. So, basically you are right, a tank wil not fire at infantry if given an armor covered arc.. there is no specific Infnatry covered arc.. the other arc makes any unit type fair game. Did that help? Bil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquon Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Thanks for the 3.6 MB pic, it's worth every single bit. JPEG, next time, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Originally posted by Dark Pa: Looks like a near-identical encounter to one I had in the "A Minor Affair" (think that's what it's called) scenario. The ... CENSORED!Dark Pa, please post a warning when you are going to provide info that Spoils the scenario for other ppl who haven't played it yet. Thank you, S.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Originally posted by Bil Hardenberger: So, basically you are right, a tank wil not fire at infantry if given an armor covered arc.. there is no specific Infnatry covered arc.. the other arc makes any unit type fair game. Did that help?It certainly did. No wonder I'm getting my butt kicked! I thought that the general covered arc on tanks was for infantry only. So what you are saying is that if I put a general covered arc on a tank,it will engage ANY kind of enemy (infantry and armor) ONLY inside that arc? Is my memory playing tricks, or is it possible to have both kinds of covered arcs on for a tank? If so, what does it mean? From the above, putting one of the arcs on a tank should cancel the other (I can't check cause I don't have the game here). Added later: Ok, I checked it last night, putting in one kind of covered arc cancels the other, so you can't have both. Hey with all this new information, I not only got a total victory as the Russians last night with the Jaegermeister scenario, I had 12 tanks left when the scenario ended! (AAR to be posted later in scenario forum). Henri [ October 29, 2002, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Henri ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Armor will break an arc if it's in dire danger. Last night I had a PzIII with an armor arc down. A T-34 rolled up outside the arc, and took aim on the PzIII. The III broke the arc and targetted the T-34 (not that it did much good...) Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 It's probably worth pointing out that your Turans didn't have much chance against those T-4s anyway, given your deployment - you left them strung out with the only cover nearby being enemy occupied, if I've identified the battle (and remember its map) correctly. Your poor tankers didn't even have anywhere to hide except behind the hill, and that wasn't going to last. A T-4 kill might have been possible (IMO, you got lucky to get one), but coming back at you it was basically a sure thing. Even if you had set an armored covered arc, the Turans would probably have simply died shooting at the real threat instead of died shooting at a nuisance - but died just the same, and just as quickly - perhaps taking one more T-4 with them, probably not, I think. The only productive thing they could have done was RUN, and I'm not sure at all how productive that would have been. You probably still lose some Turans. You appear to have made the (easy to make) error of thinking of your Turans as real tanks. Think of them instead as Shermans without the thick armor. Set up a better ambush next time. Ideally, spread out to be able to fire on different aspects of the same target, so that you don't have everybody firing at the front armor; the Turan can certainly get a kill on the side or rear. Better yet, avoid the need to commit your Turans against the enemy armor, because that's not what they're good at (they do just great against infantry). Note also that the infantry IS firing at you. Are you sure your Turans could even see the enemy tanks at that point? It may well have made perfect sense to shoot at that infantry unit at the time. [ October 28, 2002, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: demoss ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Pa Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Dark Pa, please post a warning when you are going to provide info that Spoils the scenario for other ppl who haven't played it yet. Thank you, S.M.[/QB] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Thanks for the apology...but aren't you going to edit your previous post to remove the spoiling information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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