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Clash Of The Titans! (part 2)


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I have finished two scenarios so far. I mainly cleaned up the linear features so they made sense. They don't look too bad, but they're not works of art either. I may go back and do more, but they look like good fights as they are.

I have generated a schedule for these games with Nabla's scheduling program. Of great interest is, with brute force optimization enabled, we can have every player be compared to every other player 3 times. IOW, it comes out perfect with regard to that. Every player will play the same side of a scenario as you do three times.

As far as Axis/Allies goes, it will be lopsided. One player will play the Germans five times. One will only play the Germans one time out of the seven games. This is unavoidable. It is also unimportant with regard to the scoring system. BTW, attack/defend is totally determined by the scenario. The program has nothing to do with this.

Now, I can manipulate who will get these extreme schedules by the order I list the names on the input file. Do I have any volunteers for playing Allies in six games? How about allies in two games?

Treeburst155 out.

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Deathdealer gets the 5 games as Axis.

I ran into a small glitch while condensing the forms into simpler map/weather conditions and purchase rules for the scenario briefings. I failed to include a VEHICLE category in the Force TYPE Percentages! If there are no objections, I will set the VEHICLE percentage to the same as the SUPPORT percentage supplied by the player. Speak up if you think this will adversely affect your scenario's balance. We're talking armored cars here.

Three maps done now, but the briefings are taking some time. Too much info on the raw Parameters Forms is unnecessary for the briefings. I don't want the players to have to wade through a bunch of stuff to find the force rules and map/weather info. The briefings are a big improvement over the forms from a player's perspective. It's worth the time IMO.

Treeburst155 out.

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Hello Treeburst,

Could you give an example of the format for the match-ups? I am not exactly clear who will play who, how many times and in what battle. Any kind of example would be nice to illustrate how it will pan out.

Also, not sure how you will determine match-ups, but I would not like to play Aki, but rather some different opponents. LOL smile.gif Nothing against my old Finnish friend, just that we know each other well and have played a bunch of games together. I was hoping to play different players and make some new friends smile.gif If this is unacceptable and we all must follow draws from a hat, then no worries. I thought I would ask anyways. Perhaps some of the other guys have played each other a lot too and would like to branch out, so to speak.

Aki, I know you didn't want to see my ugly mug in this, either. We torment each other enough in different battlefields ;)

Craig

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Major Taktik,

This will be the actual schedule. I just have to put scenarios with the numbers. You will have to play Aki one time only, unless you two are the top two and go to the mirrored playoff.

Each player will play every scenario one time. Each player will play every other player one time. Each player will find his score compared to every other player three times. (play the same side of a particular scenario). The Allied player is ALWAYS listed on the left.

# Scenario_1

Swamp Wreck

Fionn GravesReg

Deathdealer Ghost

Major_Taktik Broken

# Scenario_2

Fionn Swamp

Wreck Deathdealer

Major_Taktik GravesReg

Ghost Broken

# Scenario_3

Swamp Deathdealer

Major_Taktik Fionn

Wreck Broken

GravesReg Ghost

# Scenario_4

Major_Taktik Swamp

Broken Deathdealer

Fionn Ghost

GravesReg Wreck

# Scenario_5

Swamp Broken

Ghost Major_Taktik

GravesReg Deathdealer

Fionn Wreck

# Scenario_6

Ghost Swamp

GravesReg Broken

Major_Taktik Wreck

Deathdealer Fionn

# Scenario_7

Swamp GravesReg

Ghost Wreck

Broken Fionn

Major_Taktik Deathdealer

I didn't get to work on this tourney today due to computer problems, but all is well now. I'll be making good progress this coming week.

Treeburst155 out.

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Some of you have stated that all guns must not only have a towing vehicle, but must start in tow. This will not be enforceable since it is done in the player's setup. You guys are on your honor with this one. All I can do is purchase the forces for both sides, place them inside the setup zones if necessary (irregular setup zones) and do my normal security procedures so your opponents can't look at your forces.

Reading over the forms, these scenarios look to be quite interesting IMO. I think you guys will enjoy this tourney.

The briefings/purchase rules for all the scenarios are done. Still lots of work to do on various things, but it won't be too long now.

Treeburst155 out.

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Hello Treeburst,

Thanks for all the hard work!

Will we be playing all seven games at once? If indeed this was the plan, then I think it might be better to play in batches of 2-3 games. The quality of play against these tough customers requires more attention, especially if AARs are expected. I would like to hear what the others think. I also have other games going at this time and I don't want to just stop them. That would not be cool or respectful to my current opponents. So, by playing 7 new games in addition to my current games, I may begin to wear down smile.gif . Yes, it is hard to imagine, but there can be a point where I play TOO much CM smile.gif . However, if the other guys want to play all seven at once, then I will deal with it

Craig

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Originally posted by Treeburst155:

Some of you have stated that all guns must not only have a towing vehicle, but must start in tow. This will not be enforceable since it is done in the player's setup. You guys are on your honor with this one. All I can do is purchase the forces for both sides, place them inside the setup zones if necessary (irregular setup zones) and do my normal security procedures so your opponents can't look at your forces.

Reading over the forms, these scenarios look to be quite interesting IMO. I think you guys will enjoy this tourney.

The briefings/purchase rules for all the scenarios are done. Still lots of work to do on various things, but it won't be too long now.

Treeburst155 out.

TB--you can enforce this one. Just load the guns on transport, and padlock them there.

WWB

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You guys do not have to play all the games at once. In fact, I was thinking this should be a "no time limit" tourney since all of you are avid players and would probably make good time anyway. The main thing is to let your opponents know if you are going to stagger your games.

WWB,

This would be fine, but I would have to make the placement decision. I think these guys will want to choose their own start points for guns.

Not much progress made today, but lots of free time in the days ahead. ;)

Treeburst155 out.

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The mirrored playoff battle, chosen out of a hat, will be Wreck's scenario. Sorry Wreck, you won't get to see your battle unless you make it to the playoff. On the bright side, if you do make it to the playoff, you have the home field advantage (well, in a way).

Assigning the remaining scenarios to the schedule posted above by drawing out of the hat we get the following:

Scenario_1, Swamp

Scenario_2, Fionn

Scenario_3, GravesRegistration

Scenario_4, Major Taktik

Scenario_5, Deathdealer

Scenario_6, Broken!

Scenario_7, Ghost

The tourney schedule in its final form is below. Remember, the Allied player is ALWAYS on the left.

Swamp's Scenario

Swamp Wreck

Fionn GravesReg

Deathdealer Ghost

Major_Taktik Broken

Fionn's scenario

Fionn Swamp

Wreck Deathdealer

Major_Taktik GravesReg

Ghost Broken

GravesRegistration's Scenario

Swamp Deathdealer

Major_Taktik Fionn

Wreck Broken

GravesReg Ghost

Major Taktik's Scenario

Major_Taktik Swamp

Broken Deathdealer

Fionn Ghost

GravesReg Wreck

Deathdealer's Scenario

Swamp Broken

Ghost Major_Taktik

GravesReg Deathdealer

Fionn Wreck

Broken's Scenario

Ghost Swamp

GravesReg Broken

Major_Taktik Wreck

Deathdealer Fionn

Ghost's Scenario

Swamp GravesReg

Ghost Wreck

Broken Fionn

Major_Taktik Deathdealer

Since we have now put the particular scenarios into the schedule, you can actually begin choosing your forces for the scenarios if you wish. All you need is the map parameters and purchase rules. These are listed below, but first lets talk about some simple rules for sending in your purchases. I will have 56 purchase orders to deal with so we need to follow some simple rules.

Let's say Fionn is sending in forces for the Swamp Scenario. He should make the subject of the email, "Swamp Scenario, Fionn". The word "scenario" is very important for clarity. The name of the cmb file should be, SwampScenario_Fionn. We could refer to the scenarios by number, but I think it is easier (at least for me) to work with the names.

Here are all the purchase rules and map conditions for each scenario. Feel free to purchase your units. You have all the info you need now.

________________________________________________

Map Description and Rules for Swamp's Scenario

Meeting Engagement

3,000 points

October '44, Daytime, Clear, Dry 35 turns

Village, Heavy Trees, Modest Hills

Force Ruleset: Panther 76

Allied Force: British and British Airborne

German Force: Unlimited

Allied Force Type Max Percentages:

Infantry: 60% (1,800 pts.)

Support: 25% (750 pts.)

Vehicles: 25% (750 pts.)

Armor: 33.33% (1,000 pts.)

Artillery: 20% (600 pts.)

Forts: 0%

German Force Type Max Percentages:

Infantry: 60% (1,800 pts.)

Support: 25% (750 pts.)

Vehicles: 25% (750 pts.)

Armor: 33.33% (1,000 pts.)

Artillery: 20% (600 pts.)

Forts: 0%

Special Exclusions and Limitations:

Guns must start in tow

British can mix regular with Airborne

Germans can mix

No flaktrucks

Fudge Limit: 0 points

Unlimited editing

No Aircraft

No scouting with crews

Regulars and/or Veterans only

_________________________________________________

Map Description and Rules for Fionn's Scenario

German Attack

Defender: 3,000 pts.

Attacker: 4,500 pts.

October '44, Daytime, Clear, Dry, 40 turns

Rural, Light Trees, Modest Hills

Force Ruleset: Panther 76

Allied Force: Unlimited

German Force: Unlimited

Allied Force Type Max Percentages:

Unlimited

German Force Type Max Percentages:

Unlimited

Special Exclusions and Limitations:

No Flaktrucks (Panther 76)

No SMGs

All Fortifications banned except TRPs (Panther 76)

ATTACKER must start guns under tow

No transport for DEFENDER guns necessary

Allies limited to one single nationality

Germans limited to one arm of service

Unlimited editing

_________________________________________________

Map Description and Rules For GravesRegistration's Scenario

Allied Attack

Defender: 2,000 points

Attacker: 3,000 points

December '44, Dusk, Overcast, Mud (not deep), 44 turns

Village, Heavy Trees, Small Hills

Force Ruleset: Unlimited

Allied Force: American (not Airborne)

German Force: Heer

Allied Force Type Max Percentages:

Infantry: 40% (1,200 pts.)

Support: 20% (600 pts.)

Vehicles: 20% (600 pts.)

Armor: 100% (3,000 pts.)

Artillery: 30% (900 pts.)

Forts: 0%

German Force Type Max Percentages:

Infantry: 62% (1240 pts.)

Support: 37% (740 pts.)

Vehicles 25% (500 pts.)

Armor 20% (400 Pts.)

Artillery: 20% (400 pts.)

Forts: 20% (400 pts.)

Special Exclusions and Limitations:

No VT arty

No flak trucks

No Conscripts of any type

No Green spotters

Volksgrenadiers, Fusiliers, and Security MUST be Green or Regular

No arty over 155mm

No pillboxes (wooden bunkers OK)

German tanks can dig in

Fudge Limit: 25 points

Unlimited editing

_________________________________________________

Map Description and Rules for Major Taktik's Scenario

Meeting Engagement

Force Points: 3,000

March '45, Daytime, Clear, Dry, 40 turns

Farmland, Moderate Trees, Small Hills

Force Ruleset: Panther 76

Allied Force: Basic Rifle (no Airborne)

German Force: Basic Rifle and/or Panzergrenadier

Allied Force Type max Percentages:

Forts: 0%

See Special Rules for other Types

German Force Type Max Percentages:

Forts: 0%

See Special Rules for other Types

Special Exclusions and Limitations:

No towed AT guns, Infantry guns, flak guns, etc

No flak trucks

No aircraft

Max two companies of infantry

Max one hand held AT (schrecks, piats, zooks) per platoon

Max two 81mm FOs

Max ten light tanks/vehicles (includes armored cars, halftracks

Lynx, Stuart, Hotchkiss, fancy German HTs, trucks, unarmed Sdkfz)

All other points spent on medium/heavy tanks, TDs, and AGs

Troop Quality: Regular-Crack

Fudge Limit: 0 points

Unlimited editing

No arty strike on enemy setup zone for first 5 turns.

_________________________________________________

Map Description and Rules for Deathdealer's Scenario

German Attack

Defender: 3,000 points

Attacker: 4,500 points

February '45, Dawn, Snow, Dry, 45 turns

Village, Heavy Trees, Modest Hills

Force Ruleset: Panther 76 with 120mm/4.2' FO's max size

Allied Force: Unlimited

German Force: Unlimited

Allied Force Type Max Percentages:

No restrictions EXCEPT for Artillery: 15% (450 pts.)

German Force Type Max Percentages:

No restrictions EXCEPT for Artillery: 15% (675 pts.)

Special Exclusions and Limitations:

Attacking guns need towing vehicle

No flak trucks

Six Howitzer Motor Carriages max

No Allied TRPs within 400 meters of German map edge

Max German TRPs is three

Max Allied TRPs is eight

Force editing: Mortars up through 81mm can be edited out without restriction

.....No other editing allowed!

Force Quality: Green-Crack

No forward crew scouting!!

Fudge Limit for Arty: 30 pts.

Allied Forces:

No nationality mixing.

Airborne can be mixed with regular as long as there is at least one infantry

company for every Airborne company.

Airborne cannot be purchased below company strength when mixing.

Using Airborne only is OK, but NO ARMOR allowed (vehicles OK)

German Forces:

No branch mixing.

Volkgrenadier SMG's must be purchased in battalions

Volksgrenadier Fusiliers must be purchased in companies

__________________________________________________

Map Description and Rules for Broken's Scenario

Allied Attack

Defender: 3,000 points

Attacker: 4,500 points

August '44, Daytime, Clear, Dry, 31 Turns

Vilage, Heavy Trees, Modest Hills

Force Ruleset: Panther 76 with 155mm limit

Allied Force: Unlimited

German Force: Unlimited

Allied Force Type Max Percentages:

Infantry: 100% (4,500 pts.)

Support: 100%

Vehicles: 100%

Armor: 100%

Artillery: 25% (1,125 pts.)

Fortifications: 0%

Axis Force Type Max Percentages:

Infantry: 100% (3,000 pts.)

Support: 100%

Vehicles: 100%

Armor: 100%

Artillery: 25% (750 pts.)

Fortifications: 100%

Special Exclusions and Limitations:

No mixing

No flak trucks

No planes

HMC's limited to 50% of Armor points purchased

No AT mines (Daisy Chains OK)

Fudge Limit: 0 points

No editing of unit quality/experience

All other editing unlimited

No Conscript or Elite

_________________________________________________

Map Description and Rules for Ghost's Scenario

Meeting Engagement

Force Points: 2,000

October '44, Daytime, Overcast, Dry, 30 turns

Town, Moderate Trees, Small Hills

Force Ruleset: Unlimited

Allied Force: Unlimited

German Force: Unlimited

Allied Force Type Max Percentages:

Infantry: 66% (1,320 pts.)

Support: 30% (600 pts.)

Vehicles: 40% (800 pts.)

Armor: 0%

Arty: 19% (380 pts.)

Forts: 0%

German Force Type Max Percentages:

Infantry: 72% (1,440 pts.)

Support: 29% (580 pts.)

Vehicles: 40% (800 pts.)

Armor: 0%

Artillery: 15% (300 pts.)

Forts: 0%

Special Exclusions and Limitations:

One nationality only

Mixing within nationality OK

All guns must start in tow

No flak trucks (7/1 or 7/2)

Fudge Limit: 25 points

No Flamethrower teams

Max 3 Flamethrower vehicles

Regular and Veteran troops only

No force editing

__________________________________________________

Look these over, ask any questions you may have, and send in your purchases. You have plenty of time since four scenarios aren't even created yet. This will give you something tourney related to do while you wait, and keep things moving along too.

Treeburst155 out.

[ July 23, 2002, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

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Originally posted by Treeburst155:

You guys do not have to play all the games at once. In fact, I was thinking this should be a "no time limit" tourney since all of you are avid players and would probably make good time anyway. The main thing is to let your opponents know if you are going to stagger your games.

WWB,

This would be fine, but I would have to make the placement decision. I think these guys will want to choose their own start points for guns.

Not much progress made today, but lots of free time in the days ahead. ;)

Treeburst155 out.

Not quite. Padlocking units on transport just makes it so they cannot be offloaded. Only decision you would make is what vehicle carries what gun, which players could advise you on.

For an example, see my Schwarzwald Bridge scenario--you can place the tanks, but you cannot move the infantry off of them.

WWB

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Wow! Fantastic, Treeburst!

Once again, thanks for putting this together. I think its going to be a blast. I can't wait to meet all these great CM players in some real cool games.

Off to the editor to see what can be done with these Brits under Swamp's game format. Hmmm. I havn't played with this much enforced infantry points in a long time smile.gif What to do with all those Crunchies??? smile.gif

It will be nice to meet you Broken! in the first game of the tourney.

Going to be fun!

Craig

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I just tried padlocking a gun to a truck. In the setup phase I couldn't move the truck. :(

Another little issue comes to mind concerning force purchases. You guys won't have the setup zone info and VL number/location knowledge that the designer does when he is purchasing for his own scenario. The VL situation you will see during setup, but you won't know his setup zone boundaries at all.

We can deal with this in several ways:

1) We could just allow the designer to have this advantage in his scenario.

2) In cases where you are playing the scenario designer I could give you the information he has regarding setup zones and flags.

3) We do away with blind purchasing. In this case, you guys might as well design your own maps exactly how you want them.

4) I could add all the setup zone and VL info to the map descriptions above. In this case, you're not really very blind at all IMO. You have everything but a picture. This is not worth all my effort in making the maps IMO. It would be better to go with #3 and let each of you make one map complete with flags and zones.

We will put this up to a vote. Let's hear it. How do we handle this? Number 4 is out. Too much work for too little benefit.

Treeburst155 out.

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Originally posted by Treeburst155:

I just tried padlocking a gun to a truck. In the setup phase I couldn't move the truck. :(

Another little issue comes to mind concerning force purchases. You guys won't have the setup zone info and VL number/location knowledge that the designer does when he is purchasing for his own scenario. The VL situation you will see during setup, but you won't know his setup zone boundaries at all.

We can deal with this in several ways:

1) We could just allow the designer to have this advantage in his scenario.

2) In cases where you are playing the scenario designer I could give you the information he has regarding setup zones and flags.

3) We do away with blind purchasing. In this case, you guys might as well design your own maps exactly how you want them.

4) I could add all the setup zone and VL info to the map descriptions above. In this case, you're not really very blind at all IMO. You have everything but a picture. This is not worth all my effort in making the maps IMO. It would be better to go with #3 and let each of you make one map complete with flags and zones.

We will put this up to a vote. Let's hear it. How do we handle this? Number 4 is out. Too much work for too little benefit.

Treeburst155 out.

Hello Treeburst,

I say #1 would be my first choice. I guess I am not smart enough to see a huge advantage in knowing the exact setup zone areas and flag placement in these formats. The only time a designer could take advantage of this would be when purchasing, yes? This would be the only time he "knows" what to expect? After that, in setup, both players see the map for the first time. Though the formats are detailed and specific in a lot of areas, I think the setup zones and flag placements were pretty generic, yes?

Am I missing some hidden advantage? If there is an obvious advantage I am missing, then #2 would be a solution.

Craig

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You know, the setup zones aren't really as non-standard as I thought now that I look at them again. This may be a non-issue. Suffice it to say that Meeting Engagements have symmetrical zones in all cases. The attack/defend scenarios are probably pretty much standard. The defenders control most of the map.

Treeburst155 out.

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Now we are talking smile.gif

...looks good brother Treeburst - I bet everybody appreciates your efforts...

Couple of things though:

1) leader bonuses: I think it's not stated but to me it's ridiculous if we boost all of them to +2/+2/+2/+2 so that's a no-no (in my opinion).

2) about maps: I think those setup areas are pretty simple and I'd leave them to you if you don't mind drawing them - at least that way nobody can say about having clear advantage here. Anyway this should be made clear as I'm off tomorrow for about a fortnight (consulting forest daemons as Craig would say it ;) ) so if I'm expected to do a map please confirm it ASAP.

3) ammo/faust/riflegrenade/satchel charge loadouts can be altered with some settings - again little strange if we max them out as that will happen if not stated otherwise. Especially allied tungsten distribution will see some strange figures :D so again a word about them is needed I guess (I could imagine Fireflies with 25 tungsten and rest HE).

4) just noticed little more than gamey usage of scenario editor: when one splits his squads their total prize is one point LESS than full squads !!! I hope nobody uses this as with it we could get an extra gun or something like that into play with only one turn lost to total playing time because of combining squads back together. Weird behaviour with editor :(

Other than that I'll start with my troops selections right away.

[ July 02, 2002, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Deathdealer ]

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Originally posted by Treeburst155:

I just tried padlocking a gun to a truck. In the setup phase I couldn't move the truck. :(

Another little issue comes to mind concerning force purchases. You guys won't have the setup zone info and VL number/location knowledge that the designer does when he is purchasing for his own scenario. The VL situation you will see during setup, but you won't know his setup zone boundaries at all.

We can deal with this in several ways:

1) We could just allow the designer to have this advantage in his scenario.

2) In cases where you are playing the scenario designer I could give you the information he has regarding setup zones and flags.

3) We do away with blind purchasing. In this case, you guys might as well design your own maps exactly how you want them.

4) I could add all the setup zone and VL info to the map descriptions above. In this case, you're not really very blind at all IMO. You have everything but a picture. This is not worth all my effort in making the maps IMO. It would be better to go with #3 and let each of you make one map complete with flags and zones.

We will put this up to a vote. Let's hear it. How do we handle this? Number 4 is out. Too much work for too little benefit.

Treeburst155 out.

Argh. I have seen it work. Damn bugs.

WWB

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Hello Treeburst,

My ME is a little different, in that we setup in opposite corners of the map. I guess by knowing this a player would want maybe more transport capability when they purchase? But, my purchase rules state no more than two companies of infantry, so it may be clear the ME is intended to feature tanks.

Aki: I agree completely, that there should be no editiing of ammo, ratings, etc. Only deleting of support weapons and stuff from the formations.

Craig

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I think the editor should only be used for deleting units and, if the game designer so desires, unit quality. I don't think it was intended that the editor be used to modify command bonuses, number of panzerfausts, ammo loadouts, etc.

Really, for a tournament, we should be sending our purchase lists to the tourney organizer with instructions like:

Add 2 Vet Rifle companies,

Delete all 2 inch mortars from Rifle companies,

etc,

The organizer (Treeburst155 or someone he chooses) would verify that the lists are valid and then load the selected units using the editor. This does put a extra burden on the organizer, however. Robert Hall has a system he has worked out over at RD. See the tournament force purchase rules on the RD website.

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