How do blast and building destruction relate?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I tried to do an experiment to see which tanks were best at destroying buildings. I got 9 German tanks with different gun sizes. I expected to find that the building would fall at a certain blast level. For example, a Hummel has a blast per round of 303. It takes 7 rounds to destroy a tall heavy building. That is a blast total of 2121.

However, I found that buildings withstand a vastly different amount of total blast depending on what type of tank is shooting it. A tiger with a blast of 73 takes 19 rounds to kill the same building. That is a blast total of 1387. A Wespe with a blast total of 114 takes 12 rounds for a blast total of 1368.

Am I thinking about this wrong, or is there really so much variability in the amount of damage that a building of the same type can take?

If it's useful, I also tracked which tanks took down the building first (which accounts for ROF issues as well). Here they are in order of fastest to slowest (of the tanks I tested):

1 Grille 150mm

2 Hummel 150mm - close second

3 Wespe 105mm

4 StuH42 105mm

5 Brummbaer 150mm - tie for 5th

5 Tiger 88mm - tie for 5th

7 JagdPanther 88mm

X Nashorn 105mm - not enough HE

X StuGIIIG 75mm - not enough HE

[MikeyD]

Which building type were you firing on? Light small building? Heavy large building? Shack? Factory? A shack is usuallly remarkably easy to blow-over.

Big buildings - I suppose in real life a lot depends on luck. If none of the shells hit a load-bearing wall it could take quite some time. A big HE shell snapping a corner support? The whole thing could collapse into a pile on the first shot!

I'm thinking back - I believe you may be the first one ever to consider testing building collapse rates!

[imported_no_one]

Wow,you are really in-depth.I have never seen the need to look so closely,but I am guessing that some of it has to do more with the velocity of the HE rounds,not necessarily the blast values.The only problem with that is the result of the Brummbaer--which I am surprised with.

:shrug:

[imported_no_one]

MikeyD,

I am pretty sure that he is talking about tall heavy buildings--as that was the only one he mentioned.

[MeatEtr]

Kool, looks like the good doctor is a bit of a building destruction grog. :eek:

Edit: I just couldn't bare to see my typo.

[ June 04, 2005, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: MeatEtr ]

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

This is what happens when someone with a spreadsheet, CM, and an unhealthy interest in watching things go BOOM gets some freetime.

I was experimenting just with tall, heavy buildings. Perhaps I'll see how different building types handle punishment.

I'd be curious if anyone from the development side of things knows the algorithm and what variables are involved.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

So I took the winner from our first test, the Grille, and tried different building types. Even within buildings of the same type, the results isn't always the same. I ran 4 trials. Here are the number of rounds of 150mm that it took to destroy each type of building for each trial.

TYPE OF BUILDING: ROUND1, ROUND2, ROUND3, ROUND4

shack: 2, 2, 1, 1

small light: 2, 2, 1, 2

tall light: 3, 4, 3, 4

small heavy: 2, 2, 2, 3

tall heavy: 8, 8, 8, 8

The morale of this story is that the taller buildings of either type take more abuse.

I also tested to see whether there was a multiplicative effect when multiple tanks shot at the same building. There is not. A tall heavy building still takes 8 rounds even if those rounds come from 2 different tanks. Although there is clearly a rate of fire bonus so the building drops sooner when you use more tanks.

Since I also got ROF info from my tests, I thought I'd share that also.

Grille 150mm - 2-3 rpm

Hummel 150mm - 2-3 rpm

Wespe 105mm - 3-4 rpm

StuH42 105mm - 4 rpm

Brummbaer 150mm - 2 rpm

Tiger 88mm - 5-6 rpm

JagdPanther 88mm - 5 rpm

Nashorn 105mm - 5-6 rpm

StuGIIIG 75mm - 6-7 rpm

Any other tests that you are interested in?

[Soddball]

I'd like to know when the Nashorn started mounting a 105mm gun, please.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Oops! The Nashorn has a 88mm gun, of course. My notes were correct, but poorly transcribed to the computer.

[patboy]

Hi, Dr Rosenrosen

Do you used SturmTiger ? Normally it was made to destroy a building in few round in the reality of course, I don't try it in game.

(During Stalingrad battle, Waffenkommission was committed to build another sturminfanteriegeschutz to help infantry in urban battle)

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I think it's only in CMBB, not CMAK. However, I fired it up to test it out. The SturmTiger, with a blast of 2116, can take down a tall heavy building with one blast. However, it sometimes takes a second shot to destroy it. A regular SturmTiger crew takes over 2 minutes to reload, so you might still be better off with a smaller gun that has a higher ROF if you don't get it in the first shot. (In my 4 trials, 2 were successful on the first shot.)

One of the other advantages of the SturmTiger is the high blast damage. It will significantly damage adjacent buildings as well, which is great in city fighting.

[Beta1]

LOL yeah, you can level most of the block if they are light buildings!

[Denwad]

well it might not level a city block, but it will kill everything in it!

[YankeeDog]

Read the manual. IIRC, there is a statement that "Blast" rating is a rough measure of the destructive power of a shell that incorporates various attributes, such as HE load, number of useful fragments generated, avg. velocity of fragments, etc.

So, two shells with an equal "Blast" rating are not necessarily equal in-game. One might have more HE, but generate less useful fragments. This would mean a larger danger zone, since the fragments would fly farther, but the danger zone is less dense.

In the case of buildings, HE load is probably the most important factor.

If you take two platforms firing exactly the same shell, I think you'll find that their destructive power on buildings is identical. Otherwise, the "Blast" will give you only a general idea.

Cheers,

YD

[imported_no_one]

Am I wrong in thinking that velocity is a little under-estimated here?An analogy:

If you under-hand lob a softball at someone,it is just going to bounce off.However,if you throw it as hard as possible--it might just knock you off your feet.At the very least it is going to hurt like hell,and will for sure do more internal damage.

I say if all things are equal the HE round with the higher velocity should do more "internal"(read structual)damage.But only if the velocity is significantly more.

2 cents....

[throwdjohn]

one question SLIGHTLY related to this topic: does blast rating affect troops differently at different stages in the war? what i mean is will a 20mm autocannon pin or rout soldiers better early in the war? i am actually having trouble expressing my question, if anyone needs me to restate it let me know.

to rehash.

Will a regular british squad in 1941 suffer more of a morale hit or more casualties than a regular british squad in 1944 from a 20mm round?

[MikeyD]

I'm rather of the impression that blast-to-shell weight ratios migh be fairly equal among the various SP HE in the game (not counting AP with burster charges of course). I believe the Panther 75 does have a slightly lower HE charge than a Shermans 75, as in real life. The big difference seems to be between tube artillery and rockets. A Nebelwerfer round has a lot more HE kick and much less shrapnel effect.