Question on the Italian Armour school

[Hans]

What was the name and the location of Italians Armor school or base where their armoured units were trained?

[von Lucke]

The Armored Troops School; I think it was in Caserta --- just NE of Naples.

[Hans]

Thanks, any idea what the Italian name might be?

[Wisbech_lad]

"Scuola dei carri armati della latta e degli uomini del ferro"

Maybe

[capitano_gino]

The name was "Centro Addestramento Carristi di Caserta" in the fifties . At the age of WWII I don't know.

gino

[Hans]

Thanks Capitano-Gino, Von lucke and WL

[Koenig]

Before the war the C.A.C. was at Bracciano; it was transferred to Civitavecchia on 20th June 1941.

I must point out that there were several institutions charged of training tank crews, and ad hoc courses were made according to necessity.

Needless to say, the system did not work very well...

Regards

Koenig

[Hans]

Koenig thanks for the additional info. Do you know where tank gunnery was taught at during the period 1941-43?

If your wondering this information fits into a scenario I'm working on that involves an Italian warrant officer from Sicily who forms a Semovente unit from the cadre at the gunnery school to fight the Allied invasion.

[Koenig]

For tank commanders training would be at the C.A.C. Later the crews would train together at their own unit too.

On 12 March 1942 'Centri d'istruzione' (Instruction Centers) were created in North Africa, to teach newcomers the peculiarities of the theatre.

A note: Semoventi crews were drawn from the Artillery (Infantry for tanks and Cavalry for light tanks), which in Italy was without doubt of better standard than Infantry.

If you plan to use the Semovente 75/18 watch out:

1)Each platoon (battery) was lead by a command tank, armed with a twin 8mm Breda gun INSTEAD of the 75mm. Later tanks had a 13.2 mm MG.

This vehicle had better radio and range finding equipment for spotting indirect fire of the battery.

The tank was unpopular, as it had to lead the other tanks in combat virtually un-armed and was easily recognizable by the enemy, who would likely target the command semovente.

Unfortunately we miss it in CMAK.

You could simulate the combat tank by giving it 0 ammo, but were are the MGs?

2)I can't understand why the Italian tanks are denied their AA weapon: it was widely, and in the case of the Semovente I can say universally, used.

Early models had a 6.5 mm Breda, which was soon substituted with an 8 mm Breda 38.

The weapon was stored inside the tank and fitted to an AA mount when needed. Being supplied by clips instead of belts mounting and dismounting it wasn't a very diffucult operation.

3)In combat zone it was standard practice to protect the Semoventi with addictional steel plates, tracks and sandbags.

Crews scavenged the desert wrecks to get what they needed.

High echelon commaders forbade this practise as it reduced the already scarce performances and reliability of the vehicles, but the addictional protections magically reappeared as soon as commanders turned the corner.

4)I don't know when the 75mm HEAT round was introduced, but I suspect from the onset. Without doubt after the 21 July 1942, as there is a document of that date quoting its effectiveness on the field.

In CM the Semoventi have only a few HEAT rounds. According to Pignato's book 'GLI AUTOVEICOLI DA COMBATTIMENTO DELL'ESERCITO ITALIANO', the reference work on the subject, the Semovente da 75/18 had 1/3 HE, 1/3 AP and 1/3 HEAT rounds. This makes sense, as the Semovente would never be able to achieve its reputation with the ammo set we are given in CMAK.

I must add that in combat accounts I never read about the scarsity of Effetto Pronto (HEAT) rounds. On the contrary, it was the standard ammo used against tanks.

This is a major question that scenario designers using the Semovente da 75/18 must take into account.

Unfortunately in quick battles the problem can't be cured.

5)Ammo for the Semovente da 75/18 is 44-50 rounds, but the crews went into combat with about one hundred rounds, stored on the floor! No, it wasn't written on the manuals, but the room was there and ammo were precious in the desert warfare. It was standard practice.

I hope I've been of help.

Regards

Koenig

[Michael Dorosh]

Hmm....think those issues will be reflected in the ... ... the...

Nope, not gonna say it....

p....p.....

**shivers, convulses and collaps..............

[Hans]

Originally posted by Koenig:

For tank commanders training would be at the C.A.C. Later the crews would train together at their own unit too.

On 12 March 1942 'Centri d'istruzione' (Instruction Centers) were created in North Africa, to teach newcomers the peculiarities of the theatre.

A note: Semoventi crews were drawn from the Artillery (Infantry for tanks and Cavalry for light tanks), which in Italy was without doubt of better standard than Infantry.

Great indepth info, almost fell into the armour vs artillery crew trap. Thanks for gving me a heads up to that!

If you plan to use the Semovente 75/18 watch out:

1)Each platoon (battery) was lead by a command tank, armed with a twin 8mm Breda gun INSTEAD of the 75mm. Later tanks had a 13.2 mm MG.

This vehicle had better radio and range finding equipment for spotting indirect fire of the battery.

The tank was unpopular, as it had to lead the other tanks in combat virtually un-armed and was easily recognizable by the enemy, who would likely target the command semovente.

Unfortunately we miss it in CMAK.

You could simulate the combat tank by giving it 0 ammo, but were are the MGs?

2)I can't understand why the Italian tanks are denied their AA weapon: it was widely, and in the case of the Semovente I can say universally, used.

Early models had a 6.5 mm Breda, which was soon substituted with an 8 mm Breda 38.

The weapon was stored inside the tank and fitted to an AA mount when needed. Being supplied by clips instead of belts mounting and dismounting it wasn't a very diffucult operation.

3)In combat zone it was standard practice to protect the Semoventi with addictional steel plates, tracks and sandbags.

Crews scavenged the desert wrecks to get what they needed.

High echelon commaders forbade this practise as it reduced the already scarce performances and reliability of the vehicles, but the addictional protections magically reappeared as soon as commanders turned the corner.

4)I don't know when the 75mm HEAT round was introduced, but I suspect from the onset. Without doubt after the 21 July 1942, as there is a document of that date quoting its effectiveness on the field.

In CM the Semoventi have only a few HEAT rounds. According to Pignato's book 'GLI AUTOVEICOLI DA COMBATTIMENTO DELL'ESERCITO ITALIANO', the reference work on the subject, the Semovente da 75/18 had 1/3 HE, 1/3 AP and 1/3 HEAT rounds. This makes sense, as the Semovente would never be able to achieve its reputation with the ammo set we are given in CMAK.

I must add that in combat accounts I never read about the scarsity of Effetto Pronto (HEAT) rounds. On the contrary, it was the standard ammo used against tanks.

This is a major question that scenario designers using the Semovente da 75/18 must take into account.

Unfortunately in quick battles the problem can't be cured.

5)Ammo for the Semovente da 75/18 is 44-50 rounds, but the crews went into combat with about one hundred rounds, stored on the floor! No, it wasn't written on the manuals, but the room was there and ammo were precious in the desert warfare. It was standard practice.

I hope I've been of help.

Greatly appreciated

Hans

Regards

Koenig