Other Means Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 just a little moan. the inclusion of organic mortars in British/CW infantry platoons is fine. however the fact that these add up in the support section means that it's very difficult to buy infantry AND support weapons. if it comes with the infantry platoon, it should come off the infantry point allotment. TBH, under most QB conditions there is only one British formation available - a green lorried inf battalion. while this is a great well rounded force you're forced to buy them green because of all the added flim flam of UC's etc. it's very annoying. can we not seperate the points out in a different way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Most QB conditions? Which would be what, exactly? Personally, I love 2" mortars and carriers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 I was a big 2" fan in BO, but I'm not so hot on them anymore. It seems that they've upped the ROF and lowered the ammo load (no I havent' researched, that's just my impression). This effectively makes them single use weapons as they can fire off all or almost all of their ammo load in a single turn. I love the weapons, I just wish I got more than 60-90sec of use out of them. As it is, I prefer the 3". More power, more ammo, still not terribly expensive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 2" mortars have one turn's worth of HE and one turn's worth of smoke. CMAK 2" mortars have more smoke than the ones in CMBO. The ability to chuck out a halfway decent smoke screen at a platoon level is pretty handy, although the CM smoke seems undermodelled compared to reported performance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 i must not have made myself clear. i love the 2", i find it excellent for getting that initial fire supremacy. what i don't like is buying a company or whatever of infantry & finding i can't afford to buy any support weapons. i just seems in the QB's i play that i'm limited to one or 2 choices. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 The use of more points 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 You get them at a discount if they're organis - they cost less than gettign them staight from the "support" menu. I'd dispute the idea that they can put out a decent smoke screen tho - the damned things will stop firing after 4-5 rounds, then the smoke disappears jsut as yor troops are directly in front of whatever is supposed to be screened!! I'd swap all the smoke for half the amount of HE any day! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Depends on the weather. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sand digger Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Agree with Other Means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 It's what British infantry were like. Complaining about it is like complaining that German units are too expensive because of their organic 'shreks. The flamethrowers are the worst though. Not, AFAICT, historical and far too specialised to be worth the points in a QB purchase. I'm still curious as to what people consider "most QB conditions". I'd like to see better smoke modelling and some illuminating shells included in the next game that features the 2". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Originally posted by Other Means: just a little moan. the inclusion of organic mortars in British/CW infantry platoons is fine. however the fact that these add up in the support section means that it's very difficult to buy infantry AND support weapons. if it comes with the infantry platoon, it should come off the infantry point allotment. This isn't a solution, since all you are doing is transferring the cost from one screen to another, but not increasing your total allotment. You might free up enough support points for an extra Vickers MG, but end up with one fewer platoon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted August 13, 2004 Author Share Posted August 13, 2004 ok, just give the British more support/vehicle points. or define the catergories differently (why is arty seperate from other support units? define it by use, like AT, anti infantry etc) or remove some of the units from the OOB, or have the ability to loose parts of the force at least. "I'm still curious as to what people consider "most QB conditions"." loose language. sorry, near fatal on this board. how about "in a 3000pt ME with British Mechanised in a CA split." this results in 1800pts for infantry. however you can't buy the lorried inf batt '45 as regs because you go over the support budget. you've got to buy green. and you've got to buy as a unit to have any chance of matching the cherry-pickin-Gerry-picker. 3000pts spent on British Infantry force mix is even worse. you can't buy either of the Infantry Battalions on offer as you overspend the *vehicle* budget. even if you're on the defense. even if you try to buy green. so you've got to make your force mix from companies missing out on the support bargains, top level command & any sense of historicality. and if you decide to use the 'unlimited' split your opponent can choose all the über armour he wants. not intimating they would but saying "i'm having unlimited you're having CA" sounds at best churlish. therefore i'd like to be able to sometimes choose the forces which are available. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 The lorried infantry battalion does come with three platoons of vickers machine guns, two organic spotters, 6 anti tank guns, a smattering of carriers, four sharpshooters and six of each of PIATs and 2" Mortars that really ought to be integrated to the carriers. You don't think that perhaps these impact on the support budget rather more than the platoon support? On a vaguely related note, I'd like to see a bit more kick from the Vickers. If one compared the sustained rate of fire fo this weapon and the MG34/42, one finds that it's more of less the same. Yet the German guns have a much high firepower value. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 New idea! Take the battalion at 80 or 90% headcount. This should bring the battalion to a better price and would historically model the left-out-of-battle contingent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted August 13, 2004 Author Share Posted August 13, 2004 Originally posted by flamingknives: The lorried infantry battalion does come with three platoons of vickers machine guns, two organic spotters, 6 anti tank guns, a smattering of carriers, four sharpshooters and six of each of PIATs and 2" Mortars that really ought to be integrated to the carriers. You don't think that perhaps these impact on the support budget rather more than the platoon support? On a vaguely related note, I'd like to see a bit more kick from the Vickers. If one compared the sustained rate of fire fo this weapon and the MG34/42, one finds that it's more of less the same. Yet the German guns have a much high firepower value. why is there a seperate support budget at all? why not just allow a certain amount of each weapon to be purchased? tweak the amounts for different countries/times etc. or make any above a historically reasonable amount cost more? totally agree about the Vickers. AIUI the main use of MG's was suppressing fire. ISTM that longer sustained fire would actually do this better than short bursts, giving you a chance to adjust aim & 'hose' an area better. that however puts BFC in a bind or assuming psychological effects, so i'd go with RPM & make them much the same. Originally posted by flamingknives: New idea! Take the battalion at 80 or 90% headcount. This should bring the battalion to a better price and would historically model the left-out-of-battle contingent. by god you've got something there. i've never thought of trying that. i've just tried it & can buy it. what's more it's a reasonable param to insist on & will possibly help with that German armour - cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Kruger Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 I agree in a way. I mostly (90 %) play games of 1500 points or less which means you can sometimes purchase battalions. I find it disappointing that I have only a few choices to choose from because of all the extraneous equipment or vehicles that may come as part of that battalion of German motorized infantry I want to purchase. It has also limited my opponents on occasion. I am not trying to argue what is more historically accurate, but I would personally love to have the option of "stripped down" versions of battalions and maybe even companies.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 A lorried battalion without the Vickers platoons and 4.2 spotter would be good. You can't always expect the one of the divisional MG companies to tag along. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sand digger Posted August 14, 2004 Share Posted August 14, 2004 Historically there is some precedence for boosting infantry with extra support, at least around El Alamein '42 which I've studied a bit. The idea seemed to be to add a lot more punch by adding extra firepower with minimum extra bodies eg 6 pdr AT guns, Vickers, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 14, 2004 Share Posted August 14, 2004 For historical accuracy, British forces, at least towards the end of the war, should be very support heavy - armour and artillery, with 25pdrs being much in eveidence, not at 20% rarity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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