konstantine Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 This is the second time this has happened to me. An artillery unit (in this case, a regular American 81mm spotter) has perfect LOS for a fire mission. The delay counts down and the rounds fall far off target. I cancel the mission, make doubly sure of LOS and try again. They fall in the exact same place--way off target. And again. Two scenarios, two different types of spotters (the first time it was an Axis 105mm spotter), many attempts to hit the target, the rounds always fall in the exact same spot, far off target, after consistent attempts to correct the fire mission. Any explanation? According to the CMBB manual (did CMAK even come with a manual? I can't remember) artillery can drop off target. But to do so repeatedly, with numerous attempts to rectify? By the way, the only way I could get artillery to fall on target was to "mirror target" the fire mission. Here's a picture, by the way: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weags2 Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Can't tell from the picture, but was smoke obscuring the target zone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 Not as far as I could tell. I re-targetted multiple times with blue and green lines to the target. If this is because smoke or dust obscured, momentarily, LOS during the count-down...that would be pretty silly, especially if LOS was established prior to and after dust obscured the target. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Hi, wait a minute before redoing the procedure. A bit crap but once it has gone wrong cancel and wait full minute before replotting target. If you don't wait the minute without any order for the spotter it will not forget the previous order and mistakes. Hope that helps. H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Ohh and while I remember the Arty spotter has to see the spotting round fall, if it don't see the spotting round it screws up. So even if you have LOS to the area where you want it to land, the spotting round might fall outside his LOS and then you have fun... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Originally posted by Holien: Ohh and while I remember the Arty spotter has to see the spotting round fall, if it don't see the spotting round it screws up. So even if you have LOS to the area where you want it to land, the spotting round might fall outside his LOS and then you have fun... Which is stupid, because in reality nothing avoid the spotter to call for another spotting round if he doesn't see it and eventually call for spotting round even with LOS to adjust the fire mission 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Incorrect information. The FO does not need to see the spotting round, he needs to see the target itself the moment the spotting round is fired. Clear LOS at targeting time can still result in an off target mission, if dust obscures the LOS line at the later moment when the spotting round is fired. This is the leading cause of off target artillery strikes in CMAK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Holien and Darkmath, JasonC is absolutely correct, as a trip to Treeburst155's CM Artillery thread in Tips & Tricks will swiftly confirm. konstantine, It looks to me as though your fire mission has been victimized by dust thrown up by halftracks, obscuring the FO's LOS just as the vital spotting round goes out. With it blocked then, you're going to miss every time. Regards, John Kettler [ August 31, 2006, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weags2 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Thus, the reason for my initial question. If there is ANY obscuration during the countdown to the spotting round, your FFE rounds may end up in Des Moines. Harmless to your opponent but quite a nuisance to the good people of Iowa... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 Ok, now I remember reading about this. Thanks for the replies. One more question--I realize that the CM series can often be highly abstracted. But what is this supposed to represent? EVERY time LOS is obscured your artillery drops 500 meters away? "Battalion, I need a fire mission, latitude x, longitude y, over" "Copy, on it's way" ... "Oh noes it's dusty drop 500 meters to the west STAT!!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 weags2, As I understand it, there can be a skyscraper in the LOS during the countdown to shooting the first spotting round. The only thing that matters is that there be a clear LOS at the INSTANT the spotting round is fired. konstantine, This was implemented to remove some gamey things people were doing with (not so) blind fire under CMBO, where artillery was practically laser guided at the individual round level. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weags2 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Honourable Mr. Kettler, As a loooong time lurker and very new poster I am honoured to receive recognition from such a hallowed member of these fine forums! I do consider myself an accompished lurker (until I play an actual breathing body), I believe your analysis is correct. What matters is what the spotters LOS is (the actual blue line) at the moment the spotting round lands regardless if said spotting round lands in Des Moines, much to the chagrin of the good folks of Iowa... Respectfully, WeAgs2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 weags2, Welcome aboard--however belatedly! And yes, these are fine forums! I appreciate the acknowledgment, even if it is rather unfamiliar. If you've lurked as long as you say you have, you know what I mean! If you go to the aforementioned Treeburst155 CM artillery thread, I believe you'll find a most interesting technique called a "Wicky strike" discussed. Basically, he found that he could work things in such a way that his radio FO had no LOS until the last part of his move, yet was in place with clear LOS when the first spotting round went out. This discovery allowed him to greatly reduce the exposure of his FOs to hostile observation and fire. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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