Exit victory points

[Erik Springelkamp]

I couldn't find this in the manual:

How do the victory points for a unit that must exit and doesn't make it compare to the points for that unit when it is destroyed?

Is it better not to be destroyed than not to exit?

[Sergei]

If you exit, you gain points.

If you don't exit, you don't gain points.

If you get destroyed, your enemy gains points.

"Better not to be destroyed than not to exit"? Definately!

[Erik Springelkamp]

If you exit, you gain points.

If you don't exit, you don't gain points.

If you get destroyed, your enemy gains points.

"Better not to be destroyed than not to exit"? Definately!

I made a little test scenario.

Actually, if you don't exit you loose points (gain negative points) and if you exit you don't loose points.

And the lost points are 2.5 times as much as the points gained by the enemy for destroying you.

So it is still better to remain on the map then to be destructed, but only slightly so.

One truck exited = 0 points

One truck not exited = -65 points

One truck destroyed = -65 points and +26 points for the enemy.

So it pays off to take a big risk in exiting the map: if more than 2 in 5 succeed you gain.

[Sergei]

I sit corrected!

[Ace Pilot]

Erik,

In your testing, have you been able to figure out how the total score/percentage is calculated? I played an exit scenario where I had more negative points from units failing to exit than positive points from everything else. So, it appeared that my point total was negative, yet I had a positive percentage score. I've never been able to figure out how that percentage score was calculated.

[Brent Pollock]

I've made...ummm...two battles now that have:

1. Exit Points for one or both sides

2. no expectation that those units will be able to exit (I do it to reflect orders & FOW).

So, I give a balance bonus to make up for the huge VP hit that will occur for not exitting them. It's also a good way to boost the VP value for that unit and really give an incentive for cautious use.

[Erik Springelkamp]

I don't understand the percentages for victory either.

When I used 2 truck to exit the results were:

2 trucks exited: +130 points for exit, 100% victory

1 truck exited: 0 points for exit, 50% draw

1 truck exited, 1 truck destroyed: 0 points for exit, enemy 26 points for kills, 42% defeat

0 trucks exited: -130 points for exit, 0% defeat

So at least not all exit points start negative.

To Brent: I only saw a possibility to give a general bonus, not for a specific unit. That would mean that it still pays to take big risks to exit some of the units.

[dieseltaylor]

Erik

Good research. I had great trouble with a RoW game calculating how the points worked : ) One thing I did not find out was whether there was a difference in elite lorries getting off as opposed to conscript lorries .....

[Brent Pollock]

You're correct, there is no specific bonus for units. I do give just the general bonus. What I do is get the scenario going and then have both sides ceasefire. The difference in VP is caused by the unexitted units. I just balance it to zero with the Axis Bonus mechanism. Not great, but the best I could come up with.

What I really need is a third Should Exit for Points option in the editor, "Should not exit for points but the designer wants the player to think it should."

Originally posted by Erik Springelkamp:

To Brent: I only saw a possibility to give a general bonus, not for a specific unit. That would mean that it still pays to take big risks to exit some of the units.

[JasonC]

The reason for Erik's reported figures is easy to see. You are *expected* to exit any unit marked as "should exit for points?" You gain points for exiting them successfully *and* lose points for failing to do so.

If you exit *half* the force so marked, you get no net points - the gains for the half that exit will exactly balance the penalty for the half that don't. Loss points are additional. A game with an exit VC for most units on one side, will typically only be won by that side if he manages to get the majority of the force so marked off the map safely.

The right way to use this, for scenario designers, is to be sparing in assigning "should exit" to units. For example, require it of tanks but not of soft skins, guns, or infantry. It is quite hard to exit the majority of soft forces through any enemy force beyond the most thread-bare.

If you use the "tanks only" should exit idea, then the side with the exit condition is expected to preserve most of his armor and exit it, but the rest of his force can stay and fight. Tanks can often exit near the end of a battle, and can typically do so even if modest enemy forces remain. But the exiter will still only profit if he gets most of them off alive.

The other type of reasonable exit VC is an "evasion", retreat, or fighting withdrawal type mission, where the exiter's route is not blocked. In these cases, loss of half the force so marked will generally lead to a loss, preservation of most of the force will generally lead to a win.

Flags which the side expected to keep the field can be expected to gain, can be used to balance expected exit points. Thus one side tries to take the field, the other tries to prevent it as long as possible without taking serious casualties, then pulls out almost everything. If the retreating side stays too long and takes serious losses, it will lose.

[dieseltaylor]

Nice clear explanation JC. Are there any/many scenarios with this optimalised design for using exit points?

Also the fact that it is as clear as mud to most players of the way the scoring with exit points work they simply cannot plan adequately.

[Brent Pollock]

In the battles I've set up, I've used the "closed top AFVs only" approach mentioned by JasonC. One also has a "withdraw the top HQ so it can report" exit VP.

I don't know if they're out there in webland right now, with the demise of the Scenario Depot...I guess they're in the rescued compilation at CMMODS. The names are:

WBRP - Company Town (a CMBB battle with three versions, two vs AI & 2-player only)

WBRP - Charnelwood (a CMAK battle with one AI & the 2-player versions)

WBRP - Take the Rhino by the Horn (another CMAK battle which is 2-player only)

If you want them, just send me e-mail.