To Recon, Or Not To Recon

[Mickd_66]

I've been playing CM off and on now for a few months and have been learning my lessons the hard way, usually with alot of casualties, and a less than stellar After Action Report. In my latest engagement I lost 4 armored cars in one turn to well placed AT guns. As I looked at the wreckage, it dawned on me that maybe this could have been prevented with a good look over the area before rushing in. My question is this, do most gamers use reconaisance as part of thier pre-attack planning or are they like me, and just rush right in?

[junk2drive]

hardest thing for me is patience. in a 25 turn battle, do you have the time? otherwise i do use recon. split squads work well. i have yet to figure out how to use jeeps and ac's for recon work.

[Sergei]

Armoured cars aren't the best thing to bring where there are ATG's, to begin with. Recon? I'd just say having a proper formation. Have a point platoon, with a half-squad ahead, followed by rest of the point company, followed by rest of the spearhead. I like to be careful with my vehicles. It's my infantry that does the real job of grabbing & holding ground, and tanks are there to support my infantry. Of course the tanks can't support my infantry if they get knocked out or gun damaged. But of course situations vary, and so do tactics.

[Sirocco]

Given that the reconaissance phase generally precedes CM scale battles, armoured cars and other scouting vehicles should be used to provide support fire, and not information on the enemy disposition. Infantry are much more suitable to scout the MLR itself.

[Sergei]

More on the A/C's, they were used for delivering messages and to patrol rear areas and along roads to establish contact, but only seldom they would be pushed into combat in a Combat Mission type engagement.

[Zebulon Pleasure Beast]

Using armoured cars for recon is a big no-no for me, they cost precious points and die with extreme ease, especially in CMBB where antitank rifles eat up light armour and only give out a sound contact.

Trying to reconnoiter the frontlines with an armoured car or a jeep or some other liaison vehicle is suicidal at best, in CM and in real life.

As an anecdote, one time I used a BA64 for 'recon' proved extremely useful. I drove up one flank looking for targets and the AC bumped into a few tired platoons crossing completely open ground, I decide offense is the best defensive manouver here and fast move him right through the infantry, mowing several of them down with the MG and sending the rest scattering for cover. At this point a PzIV platoon spots the AC and starts aiming for him, completely exposing their 30mm sides for a few sneaky SU122s & T70s. Rest of the game consisted of sitting on the flags while repulsing a few half-hearted attempts from the survivors. This was more like recon gone wrong, but a fast AC rummaging through a flank with limited AT assets can be a tricky thorn in your opponent's side. Learn to use those covered arcs & don't leave infantry moping around without proper AT.

Like Sergei said, proper formation & advance will do the job most of the time. Lead with split squads, keep the distance right and reserves handy. Don't expose armour without a good reason to do so. Sending units out to recon tends to be a waste of your limited assets. He can just blast them off the face of the battlefield and relocate. If your formation is sound, the point assets will do all the necessary recon for you with full support coming behind them should things get hairy. Long, exposed flanks are ofcourse a different matter, so don't become overly dogmatic.

[ June 27, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: oneirogen ]

[junk2drive]

so, what are recon vehicles good for? an mg jeep cant carry a spotter, has low ammo, for example.

[Zebulon Pleasure Beast]

Originally posted by junk2drive:

so, what are recon vehicles good for? an mg jeep cant carry a spotter, has low ammo, for example.

Luring the enemy into wasting expensive shells.

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by junk2drive:

so, what are recon vehicles good for? an mg jeep cant carry a spotter, has low ammo, for example.

As a mobile MG, available for rapid insertion into a situation in which extra firepower is required urgently.

[Mickd_66]

Thanks for all the good advice. I think in future engagements, I'll use wedge formations and move to contact, or hunt orders for my vehicles. It's always good to learn from the experience of others.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by junk2drive:

so, what are recon vehicles good for? an mg jeep cant carry a spotter, has low ammo, for example.

Nevermind MG Jeeps, tell me what THIS is good for:

[Other Means]

have a look at this thread in the CMBB forum for my thoughts about recon with 1/2 squads.

it's obviously only a theory, any discussion would be welcome.

[junk2drive]

good thread

[Znarf]

Originally posted by junk2drive:

so, what are recon vehicles good for? an mg jeep cant carry a spotter, has low ammo, for example.

You can use jeeps/armored cars for "peek and flee" recon. I'm currently desiging a large scenario with plenty of time for recon (presently over 80 turns). The game starts out with just four armored cars for the Allies, and the same for the Axis AI. There are 20 reinforcement slots for each side, and their appearance is highly random (3% for Aliies, 5% for axis AI). Thus, it is imperative that light tanks or armored cars of the Allies be used for initial recon so that the player knows the best place to deply his forces (e.g., when an armored rifle plantoon appears, you probably don't want to deply it 1km to the north where your armored car hears/sees a tank platoon).

For shorter games, however, 15-20 turns, they are pretty much relegated to mobile MG units.

[Joachim]

Second Znarf here. Mobile support in short games, mobile recce and mobile support in long games on huge maps. The real recce is done by infantry.

Heavy armored cars (75mm, 2pdr, Puma etc) are effectively light tanks. Their role is either infantry support or TD duty similar to Hellcats.

SdKfz 222 or 250/9 (the one with 20mm autocannon) have AA ability. They are no AA magnets so you can keep them with other assets (unlike SPAA)

Gruß

Joachim

[junk2drive]

the bb thread has new posts. good points on all sides.

[willbell]

I'll throw my two bits in with the experienced guys.

The entire nature of my games changed when I started utilizing the formation doctrines you can pick up by reading these threads.

I will ad this, don't go crazy with split squads, they are shakey. After experimenting I figured out that these guys were using them in a limited way, and still in close support by the following squads, for early peeks at the enemy.

Also, the wedge formation can't be too extreme, everyone should be in support range.

It's the mobility of jeeps and APCs that count. You can race an infantry unit to different places where they can walk up to the fire zones for a look.

Here is a cool APC job. There is an open space with only light arms fire, ie, the enemy is on the verge of leaving. The APCs can get your reserve squads through quickly, all fresh and happy.