200th Sturmgeschutz Abtielung

[Kingfish]

Does anyone know the actual OOB of this unit during Goodwood?

Zetterling shows 4 batteries, each a mixture of 4x 75mm and 6x 105mm armed assault guns.

However, Reyonolds describes the unit's OOB on the eve of the attack as being divided into 5 batteries, with a total of 30x 75mm and 20x 105mm assault guns.

Also, I understand these vehicles were field modifications built atop French chassis. Would they be closer in comparison to the Marder / Wespe line, or StuG / StuH?

Thanks

[Andreas]

The 105s were almost certainly open-topped, and I should think the 75s as well. Use Marders/Wespes.

All the best

Andreas

[michael kenny]

Perrigault's book on 21st PD says Becker's Unit had 5 batteries and that a 6th was being formed when the invasion started.

27 June 1943 (I./2530/43) was issued to rebuild 21.PzD (except PzR 5 and PzJgAbt 39) using SB West as a core.

StuGAbt 200 (neu) with Stab, Reihenwerfer-zug (Sfl) (multiple mortars platoon) and four Stug-Btr - 4 x leFH 16 (Sfl) and 6 x sPak 40 (Sfl) each

Below:

10.5cm leFH16 (Sf) with 24 in Stug.Abt. 200

The above had a 7.5cm Pak model that was identical to the 10.5cm model (except for the gun of course!)

The detailed OOB of 21st PD in Perrigault gives a total of 24 10.5 cm and 17 Pak. 40 vehicles in Stug.Abt. 200

[Kingfish]

Thank you both.

I did some surfing on my own and found this

Marders / Wespe it is.

[John Kettler]

Kingfish,

If you go back to the 21 PD thread, you should find some good stuff, to include color footage!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Kingfish]

On a related note, was the 200th StuG ever referred to as "Becker's Circus"?

[Andreas]

I think so - his various creations were definitely referred to as such at some point, and it may well have been 200th.

All the best

Andreas

[ October 01, 2007, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: Andreas ]

[von Lucke]

In his autobiography, Hans von Luck specifically states that "at the Hotchkiss works near Paris, Becker discovered a vast number of tank chassis, for which he organized guns and finished armor plating in Germany in order to create an "assault gun" battalion."

He also refers to the Becker's battalion as "Special HQ" (though that could just be a bad English translation), never as "Becker's Circus".

Von Luck goes on for several pages about Becker and his jury-rigged assault guns --- you might want to pick up Panzer Commander. There's even a photo of Rommel inspecting the 200th!

[Andreas]

The German for the original formation was 'Baustab Becker'. Literally 'Construction Staff Becker', which makes little sense even in German unless you know what they are on about, so translating it as 'Special HQ' is okay. But Becker held simultaneous command of the Baustab and the assault gun battalion, so maybe von Luck is using the name of the former, when talking about the latter.

There is a lot of good info and some pictures in Dieter Zinke's post here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=606156

All the best

Andreas

[Kingfish]

On a somewhat-related-note, Reynolds describes the German defenses on the eve of Goodwood as including the 192nd PzGr regiment and an attached Luftwaffe panzerjager battalion deployed in and around the Colombelles factory area and Caen south.

My question is - what was the ID of the Luftwaffe unit? Part of 16th Luftwaffe div, and if so which Kompanie?

[JasonC]

Kingfish - I see 2 possible IDs. I will start with the less likely.

The 16 LW field was in the path of Goodwood, but it was already a shell, having been largely gutted eariler in the Charnwood operation. It initially had a panzerjaeger battalion with 1 towed, 1 StuG, and 1 light flak company, with major equipment 6 75mm PAK, 3 50mm PAK, 2 StuGs (understrength) and 12 20mm flak (single). Much of which would already be dead by late July. But on 9 July they were sent 8 new StuGs to bring them to the 10 authorized for the 2nd company, and those might have still been around. In which case one would have effectively a single company of StuGs.

But I consider that the less likely of the 2 IDs. Its merit is that it is truly LW panzerjaeger unit by formal designation, and that supporting a Pz Gdr regiment with a StuG company is a normal and sensible thing to do -but otherwise it is weak.

A more likely ID, I think, is a looser description of the elements of III Flak corps sent forward to be used in a ground role during Goodwood. III Flak corps had over 100 88mm guns, most of them used exclusively for air defense. It formed 3 battle sections of 8 88mm guns each to support the line in Goodwood, however. To me it is more likely these (or perhaps one of the 3 battlegroups, I suppose), is the intended unit. In which case the major equipment would be 24 (or 8) 88mm Flak.

[Kingfish]

Jason,

I also thought of the III Flak Corp, but considered it a less likely candidate for several reasons.

First, the sector assigned to the 192nd PzGr regiment, the Colombelles factory and Caen south, was predominately urban, or at least built up to a much greater extent than the towns and villages surrounding Caen. This strikes me as terrain unsuitable for the deployment of an 88 battery, be it for air or ground defense, since these weapons work best when engaging at extended ranges.

Secondly, there is no mention (that I can find) of 88s engaging the British armor from this sector.

Reynolds made it a point to mention the 4-gun battery at Cagny, and what a thorn in the side it was for the Guards armored during its advance on Vimont. An 8-gun battery in the Colombelles sector would have been smack dab in the path of the British 29th armored brigade, and would have caused considerable loss and delay, yet the lead regiments did not encounter any opposition until they had advanced as far as the Caen-Vimont road.

Now, it is possible that this unit was one of those caught in the carpet bombing attack, but from what I read the targetted area was further east.