Mac System Requirements for CMBB?

[CombinedArms]

What sort of upgrading will I need to do to my beige G3 Mac (266 Mhz; 2 MB VRAM; 256 MB of RAM) to run CMBB effectively? I have a feeling this is going to cost me a lot more than the game itself.

I'm guessing I will need a video card of some kind. What's the best one? Is the 266 Mhz processor going to be OK? I'm guessing I will to add a hard disk (I currently have about 2 GB of headroom, and it sounds like that will go just to install the game iself.)

So, I'm guessing, at a minimum, I'll need to choose an new video card and install it and also add a new harddrive. Wondering if it wouldn't be a better idea to get a new computer. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks.

Will upgrading be adequate

[Schrullenhaft]

CPU-wise I think you should be OK. Of course a faster processor would be better, but other than the graphical differences there isn't a whole-lot of processing speed requirements that differentiate CMBB from CMBO.

A newer video card is going to be a necessity for you. I guess you're limited to PCI cards (I'm not sure) so you may have a small selection of video cards to pick from. One that may suit you is the Radeon 7000 which you can find at Mac Warehouse for about US$120.

The amount of memory you have should be fine unless you're loading up a huge number of extensions and/or fonts.

As for a hard drive, I'm not sure what interface you have on your G3. It may only be IDE (which is typically less expensive than SCSI). APS Technologies is a good hard drive supplier for the Mac market with good prices and support.

You can definitely upgrade for less than a new computer, but if you want a faster CPU (which shouldn't be necessary for CMBB) then a new Mac may be the way to go.

[ July 15, 2002, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Michael Emrys]

CombinedArms, I'd suggest that you upgrade your CPU to at least 300MHz, more if you can afford it. At a rock bottom minimum your video card should have 16MB of VRAM. I think my present one has 32MB and I am seriously thinking of moving to 128MB if it has any trouble handling CMBB.

I don't know what your finances are like, but rather than investing in a CPU card and a video card, you might by spending just a little more get a brand new Mac. Here's my thinking: Apple is due to announce a new product line shortly, which means that the prices on the current models will drop precipitously as Apple and the resellers try to clear them off the shelf.

Unless you just absolutely can't come up with the scratch, it's nearly always better to get a later model than to upgrade the CPU on a Mac. Upgrades cost nearly as much and you don't get the faster system bus, faster RAM, and all the other goodies that come with a later model.

Michael

[CombinedArms]

Actually, I misremembered and my CPU has 300mhz (with a 1 mg backside cache.) I guess that might just be good enough. Still, my computer sometimes freezes when I run CM as it is, and that might get worse when I run CMBB. In general, I try to avoid processor upgrades (eg. to mhz). Still, it looks like with an upgraded video card and a new harddrive (maybe costing 250 bucks, total?) I could get by???

But maybe I SHOULD get a new computer, rather than putting money into an aging system? Would one of those new iMacs on a stalk work? But how to convince my wife that this isn't just to play CMBB?

We'll she's a MAC nut, currently at the MacWorld Expo in NYC, who closely follows all Mac developments. Maybe I can just start waxing enthusiastic about the new models? Buying one of the discontinued models might be the way to go.

Anyway, further comments would be welcome. Is there anyone out there with actual experience running CMBB on a Mac?

[ July 16, 2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

But maybe I SHOULD get a new computer, rather than putting money into an aging system? Would one of those new iMacs on a stalk work? But how to convince my wife that this isn't just to play CMBB?

We'll she's a MAC nut, currently at the MacWorld Expo in NYC, who closely follows all Mac developments. Maybe I can just start waxing enthusiastic about the new models? Buying one of the discontinued models might be the way to go.

Here's what you do [snicker]. When she calls you from Expo raving about the new models, you pretend to misunderstand. You say, "Aw, honey, I don't think we can afford one of those, but I checked and at the new prices we can get a clearance model." That way, you'll have her halfway thinking that you just saved her from a wild extravagance with a sensible compromise.

Anyway, further comments would be welcome. Is there anyone out there with actual experience running CMBB on a Mac?

I know Andreas (German Boy) has. Seems like a couple of other people have too, but I can't recall any names.

Michael

[Andreas]

CombinedArms, in a nutshell: no, your current system will not cut it. The main bottleneck is VRAM. The processor is probably on the slow side - I started with CMBO on a processor upgrade PPC604e 200 (to G3/300) with minimum RAM and that froze quite often.

Options would be:

1. Get a better videocard, at a minimum an 8MB ATI Rage 128.

2. Once you have done that, get a processor upgrade if you are unhappy with turn processing times (although that is a minor problem, unless you are into huge battles)

3. Get a newer machine. I run CMBB happily on a G4/400 with stock 16MB ATI Rage card and 384MB (overkill). I picked that one up (including the superb 17" ADT see-through) for £600 in February and am quite happy with it. If you look on ebay you should be able to get an early G4 for very little money (e.g. this one or this one. Upgrading to a better video card is the only thing you then may want to, but don't really need to do.

Even an older iMac will do, just make sure it has at least 8MB VRAM.

Hope that helps, ask if you have any other questions.

[CombinedArms]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, and thanks, Andreas, for sharing your actual experience.

It sounds like I can either upgrade my VRAM or get either an early model G4 or a more recent clearance model, as long at it's got enough VRAM. I think I'm tempted to go along some form of the G4 route. My wife is so pro-Mac she should be a fairly easy sell, though I think she'll see through my motivation pretty easily. Actually, my 12 year old daughter just got a new iMac so she could run HER games, so why not me?

BTW, what do you think causes the freezes on my current G3 (300mhz)--usually, though not invariably, with larger battles, and usually associated with the sound of the CD-ROM spinning up. Is it the processor speed or the limited 2 MB VRAM or maybe even limited CD ROM speed--8x, I think? I've lived with that minor problem but it would be nice to leave it behind me.

[Billy Backman]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

Thanks for the suggestions guys, and thanks, Andreas, for sharing your actual experience.

It sounds like I can either upgrade my VRAM or get either an early model G4 or a more recent clearance model, as long at it's got enough VRAM. I think I'm tempted to go along some form of the G4 route. My wife is so pro-Mac she should be a fairly easy sell, though I think she'll see through my motivation pretty easily. Actually, my 12 year old daughter just got a new iMac so she could run HER games, so why not me?

BTW, what do you think causes the freezes on my current G3 (300mhz)--usually, though not invariably, with larger battles, and usually associated with the sound of the CD-ROM spinning up. Is it the processor speed or the limited 2 MB VRAM or maybe even limited CD ROM speed--8x, I think? I've lived with that minor problem but it would be nice to leave it behind me.

[Schrullenhaft]

Have you applied any graphics or sound mods to your copy of CM ? I'm not sure why your CDROM is spinning up. One possibility is that it thinks one of your resource files on the hard drive is corrupt and it is reading it off of the CD.

There shouldn't be any copy protection checks during the play of a battle to my knowledge.

[Billy Backman]

oops, somehow messed up my reply to member; Combined Arms in the inquiry of why his G3 Mac freezes up on large scale battles. Thats newbies for ya!

I have basically the same G3 machine you have and was having the same problems, especially with scenarios featuring more tree & landscaping details as it taxed my 8MB Ati Xclaim pretty hard. Just curious, have you tried disabling most none essential Mac extensions in the control panel? Allocate as much memory as possible to CMBO (a Macintosh feature that's a gem, unlike my Windows 98se which sucks it all up?) and try various settings in the Quicktime/direct draw control panel.

I upgraded my Power Mac 8500 to a NewerTech G3/300mhz with 512 L2 cache and it made a huge difference, but I think what made the biggest overall improvement in total system performance was adding a ATTO U2W Ultra 2 LVD SCSI accelerator card and a 7200 rpm LVD hard drive, as it smokes my Micron Millenia Max 650 with a PIII with 512 L2! Didn't mean to ramble on but I am definitely looking at those beautiful G4's on ebay as well and God bless Battlefront.com for making this great game for the Mac as well!

[sturner]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

BTW, what do you think causes the freezes on my current G3 (300mhz)--usually, though not invariably, with larger battles, and usually associated with the sound of the CD-ROM spinning up. Is it the processor speed or the limited 2 MB VRAM or maybe even limited CD ROM speed--8x, I think? I've lived with that minor problem but it would be nice to leave it behind me.

I had the same type of problem on my Yosemite (B&W) G3. I finally solved the problem by using a different CD-ROM driver. The one that solved my problem was the Charsimac CD driver. I believe that the newer CD drivers that support iTunes also solves that problem, though you need to be running 9.2.2 for those I think.

[Michael Emrys]

Answer me something if you will, CombinedArms. When your Mac freezes while the CD drive is spinning up, does it unfreeze after a few seconds? If so, it sounds like something I've had with my last two Macs, including my present G4. It's extremely annoying, but usually harmless (except that I worry about the needless wear being imposed on the drive).

Mine does it when there is a disc in the drive and I go to launch certain programs (Outlook Express is sure to trigger this). In my older computer, it would also do it many times during the running of a program, which was extremely annoying. I decided that there was some code in the program that required some data not in memory and it was interrogating all my drives to try to find it. Naturally it takes several seconds to search a good-sized CD. The solution is to remove the CD from the drive. You can do this in CM by escaping to the desktop once you are in an actual game, ejecting the disc and then reëntering CM via the application menu.

Michael

[ July 18, 2002, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]

[Michael Emrys]

BTW, another reason why I am kind of down on upgrades is that you go and spend all that money on one and in a year's time it's obsolete anyway. Of course that depends entirely on what your needs are, but since we are talking about gaming, and games tend to live on the bleeding edge of technological progress (happily, CM is something of an exception), you can run through equipment pretty fast. But buying the most powerful rig currently on the market, you can be pretty well assured of getting as much as three years' use out of it before it is time to doorstop it.

Michael

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

We'll she's a MAC nut, currently at the MacWorld Expo in NYC, who closely follows all Mac developments. Maybe I can just start waxing enthusiastic about the new models? Buying one of the discontinued models might be the way to go.

Go for the new 17" iMac.

Its released at MacWorld NY so your wife will love it and it will easily run CMBB (don't forget to pick up a 20Gb iPod too).

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

Answer me something if you will, CombinedArms. When your Mac freezes while the CD drive is spinning up, does it unfreeze after a few seconds? If so, it sounds like something I've had with my last two Macs, including my present G4. It's extremely annoying, but usually harmless (except that I worry about the needless wear being imposed on the drive).

Mine does it when there is a disc in the drive and I go to launch certain programs (Outlook Express is sure to trigger this). In my older computer, it would also do it many times during the running of a program, which was extremely annoying. I decided that there was some code in the program that required some data not in memory and it was interrogating all my drives to try to find it. Naturally it takes several seconds to search a good-sized CD. The solution is to remove the CD from the drive. You can do this in CM by escaping to the desktop once you are in an actual game, ejecting the disc and then reëntering CM via the application menu.

Michael

When my drive freezes it sometimes does it so just temporarily, but about half the time it just freezes solid and I need to reboot. I never thought of removing the CD from the drive. I just tried it and it actually works. I guess the CD is just has to be there for copy-protection and once that requirement is supplied, you can eject. Brilliant!

Meanwhile, I'd also like to pursue the suggestion of a new CD driver. Can the one suggested above be downloaded free or do I need to buy it?

Utltimately, I'm leaning strongly toward a new or used G4 at this point. If I'd need to pay several hundred to upgrade my Mac, why not just get a new one for +/- $1,000? The eMate for a little over $1000 looks tempting among the new models. Any thoughts on that?

[lucero1148]

HI

Just saw your post and if I can chip in. I'm using a beige 233 G3 desktop and had 6MB's of VRAM & 512 MB of RAM with a 4GB HD. when I started playing CM. I upgraded my system with a Radeon for MAC PCI card with 32MB and a 9GB HD installed in the 2nd bay (SCCI).

No problems with my CPU running the game even when I didn't have the Radeon but it's a brand new world with the video card. The CPU concentrates on processing the game file while the video does the graphics .

Get the Radeon as it is more versatile than the GeForce if you use your computer for doing graphics work as it'll speed up the processing of Photoshop/Director files and does a great job with CM.

If it's only for gaming than the GF is better.

Upgrading the HD was simple as you just plug in the HD with a ribbon cable to the interior scci plug in your computer. If you go for the cheaper ide HD upgrade you have to remove the 2GB HD and figure out how to save your files in the process.

At smalldog.com you can get a 500mhz G3 for $199 and a 500 G4 for $250 (?) these are ZIF upgrade CPU's while a 80GB HD (IDE) will run you about $80.

All best

Patrick

[MouseBert]

Optimizing a Macintosh for CMBO is similar to putting together a stereo system. The analog is that the graphics card being the speakers. My suggestions of importance are:

Graphics card: ATI or nVidia (The old VooDoo 5 cards do not have adequate RAVE drivers. )IIRC CMBB will have the same Mac code and there will not be a MacOS X upgrade until a future version.

Graphic card memory - vram. I personally think 8 megs is cutting it tight.

Ram: Enough to run and avoid virtual memory

CPU speed: more noticeable in really big scenarios and almost unimportant in TCP games when the other person has a really fast processor.

Bus Speed: no upgrade here.

Hard disk speed: I think this is marginal unless you are running of something really slow like a USB drive.

Check http://www.macsurfer.com and http://dealmac.com

and if you have plenty of time, look for what you want on ebay. (Except ram which seem to go almost at list price.)