Buttoning up problem

[phil stanbridge]

This is beginning to annoy me. You button up only to have them unbutton themselves within a turn or two, and get the commander shot out by a sniper or machine gunner a lot easier than in CMBB. You don't have any control in this. I like the fact it's easier to hit the commander now, but I hate the fact they unbutton themselves like that.

[Andreas]

I don't know if this has changed from CMBB, but you can easily work around it by giving an order to button up at the beginning of the turn. If they are still buttoned, just hit the button twice.

I would find it equally annoying if they stayed buttoned.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

From another thread:

******SPOILER*******

Originally posted by Madmatt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bill Macon:

New graphics are great. One minor thing I noticed playing the Italian scenario was my Sherman commanders being shot up more than in CMBO. So the second time I played I had the Shermans button up and advance. Here's the odd thing - the tanks unbuttoned on their own, and then the commanders got shot up. This will take some getting used to. Anyway, great job and I'm waiting for the full version.

They get shot up due to the quality of the Sharpshooter in the Italian scenario (he is Crack).

In CMBB 1.03 we recoded the TacAI to wait at least 60 seconds to unbutton if the player manually issued a button command.

That code is also in place for CMAK. Are you seeing the TC's pop up before the end of the same turn you issued the Button Up order or is it later on? If you want them to stay buttoned, go ahead and reissue the command each turn, by having them unbutton and rebutton. Normally the TacAI is pretty good about keeping their heads down, but sharpshooters can make this tricky and if you absolutely want them to stay down, just *force* them to each turn until you can flush out that guy and give the all clear.

If you notice that your TC's are popping in less than 60 seconds, try this trick, give the command twice in the same turn (button, unbutton, button). The internal clock doesn't reset with a second command issued(but it doesnt simply double either) so that should guarantee they stay down a full turn. The following turn, just do it again.

Let me know if that doesn't work though but I just ran a bunch of tests with the demo, and I couldnt ever get a TC to unbutton in less than 60 seconds myself.

Madmatt </font>

[phil stanbridge]

I'm not sure I follow you Andreas? Surely there is no other way to order them to button-up other than at the start of a turn?

[phil stanbridge]

ok thanks I think I follow now - so I need to issue the command twice to get them to follow the order - I've just played the mission twice and have had all my commanders shot up by that pesky sniper.

[argie]

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What I find strange is the Sharpshooter gets 0 kills in the AAR despite having killed all TCs...

[Mr. Tittles]

I did a test to see if capturing forces is really worth 2X the amount. I used LOD. spoiler

I put one plat HQ and one tank killer 2 man team in the open. I put another of each hiding in the town. The rest of the german forces were ordered to get off the board.

I had all US armor surround the exposed units and killed them, even though they tried to surrender. I used area fire and yelled "die, die, die'.

I then surrendered the germans.

The result was not exactly double. There was 6 casualties and one was a KIA. There was 6 surrendered POWs. I got 33 points for the casualties and 64 points for the POWs.

But the surprising thing was one of the bastards shot one of my TCs! I didnt pay any attention when it happened. He got 31 points!

[Massattack]

I support the first poster. A lot of clicking would be saved if there was a "stay buttoned" option available.No reason why the original "Button Up" option should'nt still work allowing one minute or so buttoned up. The work around is a lot better than nothing, but it just took me one error in forgetting to renew the button up command on one tank to lose the TC that go, rather frustrating. A minute seems a long time to wait when your watching the replay fearing the inevitable snipers deadly shot!

Regards

[Ant]

TCs getting killed on a regular basis is fairly realistic. Casualty rates for TCs were high in WW2 and it's still happening today to the Isrealis.

The trouble is that thanks to the Borg spotting bug tanks in CM have a far higher situational awareness than they have in real life. In reality a buttoned up tank is almost blind and deaf. If you lose situational awareness in a fight you're dead and the only way a tank has good situational awareness is when it's unbuttoned. Unfortunetely, that means putting the TC in harms way.

[rune]

There have been several threads on this, which I have answered, as well as others. Mr. Tittles reported that Abrams threatened to weld open any hatch where the tc buttoned up.

I have posted from the war department, the documentation that not till Apr 45, did they send out in Combat Lessons Learned for the TCs to button up due to sniper fire.

I have also been inside the Sherman, hetzer, and other tanks and took pictures through the vision ports, and you would be amazed how little you can see.

Last, as the player, you have a god like view, your tc does not.

Rune

[Mr. Tittles]

I think TCs are also visually-centric in battle. The sound of a running engine and wearing headphones, limits the battlefield information to what they can see themselves or hear through the intercom. Outside noise signatures would be very limited.

On a battlefield where arty has been used to prep fire an area, the dust raised by a firing ATG would be hard to spot. The TC would have to be head out to really effectively give overwatch fire.

Tanks that cant determine where AT fire is coming from would pop smoke and reverse.

[Pvt. Ryan]

I believe the current state of self unbuttoning tanks is a result of CMBO's tanks staying buttoned - so that the AI's tanks never unbuttoned once they were buttoned. It gave too much of an advantage to the human player against the AI. I believe this was changed early in CMBB, but tanks would only stay buttoned for a short period of time. Then it was changed so that tanks would stay buttoned for a whole turn and the player could reissue the command if he wanted to, as it is now.